MBNA Aircraft Financing

I wanted to relate an interesting story. I purchased a small single engine
Piper in January of this year through my business. At the time I had extra
cash in the business, so rather than finance it, I decided just to use the
cash and then
perhaps put the financing in place later.

Well the later turned out to be yesterday. I decided to try MBNA based upon
AOPA's recommendation, so I called MBNA. and inquired about the financing.
Generally I have found AOPA's approved affiliates to be excellent, and very
customer service orientated. This was not the case with MBNA. To my
surprise the MBNA representative told me they could not finance a plane that
wasn't an actual purchase. I didn't really understand why, and asked him to

I'll offer a counterpoint to this. I bought my plane 3 years ago for
cash. 6 months ago I decided to "refinance" so I could update my radio
stack. I used MBNA and they were a pleasure to deal with. They gave me a
better rate and offered to finance more of the plane than Dorr or the
other ones I talked to. One difference in our stories--I did finance
more than the cost of the stack and used the extra to pay off a home
equity line so as far as they were concerned it was a refinance and not
just taking cash out of the plane. Still, they were great to work with.
Maybe the Bank of America merger has addled their brains. The bank where
I have my checking and savings accounts recently became BoA. Now I get
half the services for twice the fees.

--Rick

Hi Rick,

I wasn't looking to do a "cash out", I just wanted to finance what I paid
for the plane, or some significant portion thereof. I live in Wilmington,
the banks headquarters, and one of my customers happens to have run this
department until he retired, about two years ago He wasn't that surprised
with my story. When he ran the department, particularly a loan of this
size, that would not have to go to loan committee, he would have approved it
on the spot. Maybe I just got the wrong represintative. I wish I had
talked with the one you worked with. I have a lot of customers and friends
who are senior MBNA executives, I could probably make a call, and I'm
pretty sure I would get the financing. But I don't want to do that. They
are either going to be easy to work with or not, and if they are this
inflexible up front who knows how bad they will be during the life of the
loan. Several years ago I had a similar experience with their credit card
department. I needed a short term loan to cover income taxes. I decided to
do a cash advance off of my MBNA card at our local bank. When I got my
statement the next month from MBNA I was surprised to see a $900 surcharge,
in addition to the 21% interest they charge. Needless to say I was a little
annoyed. I called them to discuss the charge and have it reduced or
hopefully removed. They wouldn't, even after I kicked the complaint up
several levels. So I closed the account on the spot and paid off the card.
I swore I never would use MBNA again (so much for me resolution!) Now they
were certainly within their rights to charge me that. I had apparently
agreed to it. But in the long run they lost a good customer because of
their inflexibility, and lack of customer focus. In discussing that
particular incident with some of my credit card customers from other credit
card banks in Wilmington, they told me that their banks would probably have
removed the $900 fee, and kept the customer happy. Who knows?

I agree with you as well that I have found AOPA's approved vendors to be
generally excellent as well. This MBNA deal is the exception. Maybe MBNA
was having a bad day the day I called? I wrote AOPA last week about this
and other than an automatic reply I haven't heard word one from them yet.
I'm sure they get a lot of emails from their members, so I will be curious
to hear what their thoughts are when they respond.

Charlie

"Rick Beebe" wrote in message
...
I wanted to relate an interesting story. I purchased a small single
engine
Piper in January of this year through my business. At the time I had
extra
cash in the business, so rather than finance it, I decided just to use
the
cash and then
perhaps put the financing in place later.

Well the later turned out to be yesterday. I decided to try MBNA based
upon
AOPA's recommendation, so I called MBNA. and inquired about the
financing.
Generally I have found AOPA's approved affiliates to be excellent, and
very
customer service orientated. This was not the case with MBNA. To my
surprise the MBNA representative told me they could not finance a plane
that
wasn't an actual purchase. I didn't really understand why, and asked him
to

I'll offer a counterpoint to this. I bought my plane 3 years ago for cash.
6 months ago I decided to "refinance" so I could update my radio stack. I
used MBNA and they were a pleasure to deal with. They gave me a better
rate and offered to finance more of the plane than Dorr or the other ones
I talked to. One difference in our stories--I did finance more than the
cost of the stack and used the extra to pay off a home equity line so as
far as they were concerned it was a refinance and not just taking cash out
of the plane. Still, they were great to work with. Maybe the Bank of
America merger has addled their brains. The bank where I have my checking
and savings accounts recently became BoA. Now I get half the services for
twice the fees.

--Rick

I just purchased a 1993 Mooney M20J. My first contact was to MBNA. As someone that is self employed my tax returns do not give a clear picture my income. I filled out an application online and wait for there response within 24 hours (per there site). After two days I called them only to get a rude response for one of their reps. informing me I was declined. When I tried to question the reasoning behind the denial the rep simply huffed & puffed that I continued to waste his time. Two days later I called back in hopes to get a different rep (no such luck) only to receive the same treatment. When I informed him I could come up with as much cash as they would require & that I just needed a minimal loan he then passed me off to the under writer that was equally annoyed by my phone call & said he would not fund any amount!

I then contacted 1st Pryor of Oklahoma (Bob) explained my situation & was approved within two hours.


As a long time AOPA member I am very disappointed that AOPA would recommend MBNA. This is obviously a case of AOPA selling out to MNBA for there MONEY!!!

BTW, check you BOA accounts. They recently started charging me $10 per
month, even though I use direct deposit. As it turns out, they did not
convert my fee free Fleet account to the same fee free BOA account. They
said that they would not waive the fee because it was not a bank error, and
they had notified me of the change.

I brought ALL the correspondence (a file four inches thick) I have gotten
from BOA this year to my local branch, took it to a teller, and asked her to
point out where it showed that I would have to pay for this account.

She changed the account and waived the fee.


"Rick Beebe" wrote in message
...
I wanted to relate an interesting story. I purchased a small single
engine
Piper in January of this year through my business. At the time I had
extra
cash in the business, so rather than finance it, I decided just to use
the
cash and then
perhaps put the financing in place later.

Well the later turned out to be yesterday. I decided to try MBNA based
upon
AOPA's recommendation, so I called MBNA. and inquired about the
financing.
Generally I have found AOPA's approved affiliates to be excellent, and
very
customer service orientated. This was not the case with MBNA. To my
surprise the MBNA representative told me they could not finance a plane
that
wasn't an actual purchase. I didn't really understand why, and asked
him to

I'll offer a counterpoint to this. I bought my plane 3 years ago for
cash. 6 months ago I decided to "refinance" so I could update my radio
stack. I used MBNA and they were a pleasure to deal with. They gave me a
better rate and offered to finance more of the plane than Dorr or the
other ones I talked to. One difference in our stories--I did finance
more than the cost of the stack and used the extra to pay off a home
equity line so as far as they were concerned it was a refinance and not
just taking cash out of the plane. Still, they were great to work with.
Maybe the Bank of America merger has addled their brains. The bank where
I have my checking and savings accounts recently became BoA. Now I get
half the services for twice the fees.

--Rick

att news group wrote:

I would not
recommend MBNA, and would urge others to look else where for their aircraft
financing. I would also be curious if anyone else has had customer
inflexibility with MBNA?

When I bought my Maule, I checked with a variety of companies about the loan.
Every company was quick to volunteer their interest rate, but I also asked each
company what the payments would be. MBNA had the lowest interest rate but the
highest monthly payments. Don't know why, but I'm aware that there is a certain
amount of leeway in the methods allowed for calculating interest on such loans.
MBNA also had the most convoluted application form.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

#1) I would finance nothing with MNBA - for many other reasons.

#2) Why do you feel there is a difference between borrowing money against a
house you own, and borrowing money against a plane you own?

When you are buying, you are protecting your interests, which, at the time
of purchase, usually mirror the interests of the bank/finance company. You
want the best purchase at the best price.

When you are refinancing something you already own, you're not likely to
walk away if you find out the plane isn't worth the asking price.

I doubt the telemarketer on the phone understands this, nor does the
supervisor. They are simply told that they cannot write a loan without
transfer of ownership.


"att news group" wrote in message
...
To my surprise the MBNA representative told me they could not finance a
plane that
wasn't an actual purchase. I didn't really understand why, and asked him to
explain. He said it was like doing a cash out refinance of your home. I
said it's not even the same thing. So he checked with a supervisor. When
he came back he said they could not finance it. He compared it again to a
cash out refinance of a home. That analogy really confused me.

"att news group" wrote in message
...
I would also be curious if anyone else has had customer
inflexibility with MBNA?

Charles


I've used MBNA for my last 3 planes. I've had no problems. And on one of
them
they wrote the loan for the new one prior to the old one being sold. On
another
they refinanced it when interest rates dropped considerably.

Are you contacting the group that handles AOPA financing? Or just a
random MBNA loan rep?

I've always had courteous, quick service and will call them first the next
time I buy a plane.

No. I called the number right off of the AOPA member page.

Charlie

"OtisWinslow" wrote in message
. ..

"att news group" wrote in message
...
I would also be curious if anyone else has had customer
inflexibility with MBNA?

Charles


I've used MBNA for my last 3 planes. I've had no problems. And on one of
them
they wrote the loan for the new one prior to the old one being sold. On
another
they refinanced it when interest rates dropped considerably.

Are you contacting the group that handles AOPA financing? Or just a
random MBNA loan rep?

I've always had courteous, quick service and will call them first the next
time I buy a plane.

ANY large company goes downhill in customer service.

Off Topic, but COMCAST is a good example. Now that they have a monopoly in
our area, you can't get ANYTHING from them.

MBNA has always been a large finance company due to the fact that their name
is used by groups like Nascar, AOPA, etc. That doesn't mean they are good.

Look for a good underwritten company thats NEW. NEW companies have GREAT
customer service.


"att news group" wrote in message
...
I wanted to relate an interesting story. I purchased a small single engine
Piper in January of this year through my business. At the time I had
extra
cash in the business, so rather than finance it, I decided just to use the
cash and then
perhaps put the financing in place later.

Well the later turned out to be yesterday. I decided to try MBNA based
upon
AOPA's recommendation, so I called MBNA. and inquired about the financing.
Generally I have found AOPA's approved affiliates to be excellent, and
very
customer service orientated. This was not the case with MBNA. To my
surprise the MBNA representative told me they could not finance a plane
that
wasn't an actual purchase. I didn't really understand why, and asked him
to
explain. He said it was like doing a cash out refinance of your home. I
said it's not even the same thing. So he checked with a supervisor. When
he came back he said they could not finance it. He compared it again to a
cash out refinance of a home. That analogy really confused me. I said,
so if I produced an agreement of sale transferring from my corporate name
to
another entity you would finance it? That thought, I think, confused him.
I then made a snap decision that they are definitely not customer service
orientated, and I didn't need to be creative to place my business with
MBNA.
So I thanked him for his time and we parted ways. Interestingly enough I
called several other vendors that specialize in aircraft financing, they
were delighted to have my business and finance the plane.

It is incredulous that MBNA would not finance this plane! I guess MBNA
has
more business than they need because they sure don't seem very anxious to
bring on new business, or at the very least are not really geared to
handle
aircraft financing, it is really a side line business and does not conform
to their core business model, the credit card business. Inflexibility
up-front is not
a really good sign of customer support and service. I would not
recommend MBNA, and would urge others to look else where for their
aircraft
financing. I would also be curious if anyone else has had customer
inflexibility with MBNA?

Charles

Just to put a final message to the group about my MBNA customer experience.
I picked up a message Monday from a representative from MBNA's aviation
lending group. She had been contacted by AOPA regarding my criticism
(kudos' to AOPA for the prompt follow through on my behalf) I called her
back. After hearing what I wanted to do, she basically reiterated what her
colleague had told me last week that they wouldn't finance a plane that had
been purchased more than sixty days prior.

My recommendation for anyone out there is don't waste your time with MBNA,
call Dorr and ask to speak to Brian. They are great and are anxious to meet
the aviation customer's needs.

Happy flying,

Charlie




"Dave" wrote in message
...
ANY large company goes downhill in customer service.

Off Topic, but COMCAST is a good example. Now that they have a monopoly
in our area, you can't get ANYTHING from them.

MBNA has always been a large finance company due to the fact that their
name is used by groups like Nascar, AOPA, etc. That doesn't mean they are
good.

Look for a good underwritten company thats NEW. NEW companies have GREAT
customer service.


"att news group" wrote in message
...
I wanted to relate an interesting story. I purchased a small single
engine
Piper in January of this year through my business. At the time I had
extra
cash in the business, so rather than finance it, I decided just to use
the
cash and then
perhaps put the financing in place later.

Well the later turned out to be yesterday. I decided to try MBNA based
upon
AOPA's recommendation, so I called MBNA. and inquired about the
financing.
Generally I have found AOPA's approved affiliates to be excellent, and
very
customer service orientated. This was not the case with MBNA. To my
surprise the MBNA representative told me they could not finance a plane
that
wasn't an actual purchase. I didn't really understand why, and asked him
to
explain. He said it was like doing a cash out refinance of your home. I
said it's not even the same thing. So he checked with a supervisor.
When
he came back he said they could not finance it. He compared it again to
a
cash out refinance of a home. That analogy really confused me. I said,
so if I produced an agreement of sale transferring from my corporate name
to
another entity you would finance it? That thought, I think, confused
him.
I then made a snap decision that they are definitely not customer service
orientated, and I didn't need to be creative to place my business with
MBNA.
So I thanked him for his time and we parted ways. Interestingly enough I
called several other vendors that specialize in aircraft financing, they
were delighted to have my business and finance the plane.

It is incredulous that MBNA would not finance this plane! I guess MBNA
has
more business than they need because they sure don't seem very anxious to
bring on new business, or at the very least are not really geared to
handle
aircraft financing, it is really a side line business and does not
conform
to their core business model, the credit card business. Inflexibility
up-front is not
a really good sign of customer support and service. I would not
recommend MBNA, and would urge others to look else where for their
aircraft
financing. I would also be curious if anyone else has had customer
inflexibility with MBNA?

Charles