Kid day at the airport...

Jay Honeck wrote:
A pop-up IFR clearance to go cloud dancing? We're talking about
dipping a wing in a puffy cloud the size of a semi-truck, separated by
1/2 mile from the next nearest similar-sized cloud.

We're talking about blatant violation of the FARs.

Really? What is the technical definition of a "cloud"?

Yes, really. As far as definition is concerned, the OED will do for me. "Visible
condensed water vapour suspended in the atmosphere high over the general level
of the ground."

If I can see through it, is it a "cloud"?

Yep. It just has to be visible.

Is there a size parameter?

Nope.

I've searched and can't find a technical definition of an
"FAA cloud".

The FAA usually feels that they don't have to define commonly used English
words. Webster's or Oxford already does that job nicely.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Jay Honeck wrote:

A pop-up IFR clearance to go cloud dancing? We're talking about
dipping a wing in a puffy cloud the size of a semi-truck, separated by
1/2 mile from the next nearest similar-sized cloud.

We're talking about blatant violation of the FARs.


Really? What is the technical definition of a "cloud"?

If I can see through it, is it a "cloud"?

No.

On 16 Sep 2005 10:40:00 -0700, in rec.aviation.piloting you wrote:

Is there a size parameter? Bigger than a bread-box? Smaller than a
city block? I've searched and can't find a technical definition of an
"FAA cloud".

Hey Jay,

For the FAA definition of a cloud go to
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=15630. Scroll toward the
middle and you will find the following:

quote

New Definition of ``Cloud'' in Sec. G417.3

In response to comments, the draft regulatory language would define
``cloud'' as a visible mass of water droplets or ice crystals produced by
condensation of water vapor in the atmosphere.

/quote

If you can see visible moisture, it's a cloud. While our machines may not
get as high as cirrus clouds, those things look pencil thin, yet they are
called clouds.

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with others. The cloud clearance
rules and regs are designed to protect the IFR pilot.

If I am GPS direct off route from point A and point B and plodding along in
and out of clouds, the last thing I would want is an unpleasant surprise
coming out of a cloud.

Mind you, center "may" give me a traffic advisory saying 43L, traffic 12:00
3 miles ahead, 3500 unverified. If either of our altitudes are off, it
will make for an unpleasant meeting.

Traffic is already hard enough to spot on severe clear days. Having my
head inside the cockpit and popping out of a cloud won't give me time to
see you much less avoid you if center doesn't / didn't give me an advisory.

While the big sky theory works, I wouldn't want to fully depend on it.

Hope this helps.

Allen

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

I would have liked this story better if you said "a scattered layer of
puffy clouds developed at around 4000 MSL, so I called approach for a
pop-up
IFR clearance so we could go cloud dancing..."

A pop-up IFR clearance to go cloud dancing?

Why not? Then if you want to fly through a larger cloud, you can do that
too. Unless you're in the middle of a busy approach corridor, you can ask
for a block altitude, radius of present location, or whatever. People
believe you can't do fun stuff like sightseeing or cloud chasing VFR...sure
you can, just need a clearance to do it.


Although there are many valid reasons to obtain an IR, IMHO your
example isn't one of them.

I appologize as I must have misread your post. I interpreted "dipping a
wing in the little puffies" as flying closer than 500 feet below the cloud,
1000 feet above, or 2000 feet laterally. I'm sorry for the
misunderstanding.

Jay,
There is not much that is more fun than taking kids on their first
ride. I do it for my Boy Scouts all the time (if you are interested, I
can help with the paperwork/insurance req for BSA). I joined CAP just
so I could fly cadets! Introducing people to aviation is awesome!

-Robert, CFI

There is not much that is more fun than taking kids on their first
ride. I do it for my Boy Scouts all the time (if you are interested, I
can help with the paperwork/insurance req for BSA). I joined CAP just
so I could fly cadets! Introducing people to aviation is awesome!

Thanks, Robert -- but I'm already there! I've flown Cub Scouts, Boy
Scouts, and Girl Scouts, as well as Young Eagles and (unofficially,
although I am in CAP -- just haven't had time to get certified in their
aircraft yet) CAP cadets. (We did the flight under the auspices of
Young Eagles, since I wasn't legit as a CAP pilot.)

Flying with kids is the best thing, IMHO. They generally love flying,
love airplanes, love airports -- and they don't critique my landings!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
-- and they don't critique my landings!


....sorry about that. :-)


Montblack

-- and they don't critique my landings!

...sorry about that. :-)

Montblack

Did you critique my landings?

Can you say "forward CG"???

ducking!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

ROFL! Run Jay, he can't catch ya! or just stop and tell him a joke,
laughing will kill him!

Jim


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
-- and they don't critique my landings!

...sorry about that. :-)

Montblack

Did you critique my landings?

Can you say "forward CG"???

ducking!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Good job on sharing the experience with the kids. Stay safe.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone