Does V-22 Go Twices as Far, carry Twice as Much?

Nice input., Dave. The Vintokryl is a good alternative, and it compares
quite nicely with the helicopter. The payload was 36,000 lbs and the
horsepower was about right (13,000 HP) so it lays on the line with a single
rotor helicopter, and far above a tilt rotor. Dr. Mikheyev gave a paper at
a conference that I was at and espoused that configuration. I will dig up
some details (maybe email Dr. Mikheyev) and post the comparison.

I think that payload was done with a rolling takeoff, as the gross weight
was eyewatering, and the hover performance was much poorer than a single
rotor helo (wing drag costs about 10% of total payload, but the wing adds
about 20 knots of cruise speed). The program was cancelled, reportedly
because of the aeroelastic problems between the rotors and wing. That is
also the reason why the early tilt rotors were not successful, and why the
V22 is a testament to the dynamic analysis technologies designers have
today.

Note that both the KA-22 and the CH-53E have the same horsepower as a V22,
but carry twice as much payload as the tilt rotor, even though the V22 has a
much more efficvient structural design, due to the fact that it was designed
40 years later. If a helo were designed with the same tools, the V22's
payload would look even worse.

Nick


"Dave Jackson" wrote in message
news:IbHZe.556210$s54.151893@pd7tw2no...
Nick,

Would it be fair to toss a third rotor configuration in to the
competition?

How about the Side-by-Side Kamov KA-22 "Vintokryl:

http://www.vstol.org/wheel/VSTOLWheel/KamovKa-22.htm

~ Speed of 192 knots [record]

~ Payload of 36,343 lbs [record]

~ Gross weight of 65,036 lbs

This is a 44-year-old helicopter. Just think of what could be done with
today's engines and composite materials.

I think that it's a slam-dunk for the Vintokryl.

Dave



"Nick Lappos" wrote in message
...
Just to keep the juices flowing, and get this newsgroup buzzing again,
try this:

http://webpages.charter.net/nlappos/...comparison.pdf

Hello Mr. Lappos

Would it be fair to toss a fourth rotor configuration in to the competition?
www.diskrotor.com

George

"Dave Jackson" wrote in message
news:IbHZe.556210$s54.151893@pd7tw2no...
Nick,

Would it be fair to toss a third rotor configuration in to the
competition?

How about the Side-by-Side Kamov KA-22 "Vintokryl:

http://www.vstol.org/wheel/VSTOLWheel/KamovKa-22.htm

~ Speed of 192 knots [record]

~ Payload of 36,343 lbs [record]

~ Gross weight of 65,036 lbs

This is a 44-year-old helicopter. Just think of what could be done with
today's engines and composite materials.

I think that it's a slam-dunk for the Vintokryl.

Dave



"Nick Lappos" wrote in message
...
Just to keep the juices flowing, and get this newsgroup buzzing again,
try this:

http://webpages.charter.net/nlappos/...comparison.pdf

George,

I have seen that arrangement before, it seems to have the ability to blend
the properties of a helicopter and a wing, but there are enormous practical
considerations to be overcome before it could fly. None are deal-killers,
but the sum of them is quite a bit of development work to assure production
capability. Mostly, concerns center on the 1) structural capability of the
rotors, which have virtually no hinge (about 50% hinge offset) and 2) the
ability to stop/stow and redeploy while airborne, with the tremendous
stresses and dynamic changes inherent in that trick. The X-wing tried that
(with a larger rotor) and was never successful, in the end.
Certainly, the Diskrotor tries to win back some low disk loading, a very
good first step!

Nick


"George Vranek" wrote in message
...
Hello Mr. Lappos

Would it be fair to toss a fourth rotor configuration in to the
competition?
www.diskrotor.com

George

"Dave Jackson" wrote in message
news:IbHZe.556210$s54.151893@pd7tw2no...
Nick,

Would it be fair to toss a third rotor configuration in to the
competition?

How about the Side-by-Side Kamov KA-22 "Vintokryl:

http://www.vstol.org/wheel/VSTOLWheel/KamovKa-22.htm

~ Speed of 192 knots [record]

~ Payload of 36,343 lbs [record]

~ Gross weight of 65,036 lbs

This is a 44-year-old helicopter. Just think of what could be done with
today's engines and composite materials.

I think that it's a slam-dunk for the Vintokryl.

Dave



"Nick Lappos" wrote in message
...
Just to keep the juices flowing, and get this newsgroup buzzing again,
try this:

http://webpages.charter.net/nlappos/...comparison.pdf

Nick,

here are my answers on your concerns.

"Nick Lappos" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
George,

I have seen that arrangement before, it seems to have the ability to blend
the properties of a helicopter and a wing, but there are enormous
practical
considerations to be overcome before it could fly. None are deal-killers,
but the sum of them is quite a bit of development work to assure
production
capability. Mostly, concerns center on the 1) structural capability of
the
rotors, which have virtually no hinge (about 50% hinge offset) .....but
thanks to the GFRP technology, the helicopters with hingeless rotors are
quite succesfull.

and 2) the
ability to stop/stow and redeploy while airborne, with the tremendous
stresses and dynamic changes inherent in that trick.....the trick is in
the sequency: first stow, than stop and first rotate, than redeploy. It is
even possible to keep the disk in a slow rotation after stowing the
rotorblades and use it as a small AWACS.

The X-wing tried that
(with a larger rotor) and was never successful, in the end.....but the
X-wing equipped with the disk rotor could be the world first supersonic
helicopter!!!


Certainly, the Diskrotor tries to win back some low disk loading, a very
good first step!....thanks for the flowers....and not only this! The disk
brings law and order in to the aerodynamic of a helicopter rotor.

Nick

This will fix the entire problem.

http://www.vtol.org/issues.html#mono

Of course, I don't think I'd like to ride in it, or under it, or
whatever you do with it.

Frank

Hello Helowriter,

The machine on the www.vtol.org is a tiltrotor! Remember, the tiltrotors
have not optimal rotors for howering and not optimal props for crusing.
Therefore they are the wrong way to make a helicopter flying fast. The V-22,
which is a result of 50 (five, zero) years of development, carries half as
much, just so far, at twice the cost of an equivalent conventional
helicopter and is only 50 % faster!!! The diskrotor helicopter shown at
www.diskrotor.com equipped with two F-119 engines will take off, hower,
autorotate and land as a convetional helicopter and cruise supersonic as the
Concorde did!!!

George


"Helowriter" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
ups.com...
This will fix the entire problem.

http://www.vtol.org/issues.html#mono

Of course, I don't think I'd like to ride in it, or under it, or
whatever you do with it.

Frank