Need some advice for new pilot in training

Slow to 1.2 Vs, pitch up and add T.O. power, the plane won't
gain to much altitude before the power on stall.


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"Christopher Parker" wrote in message
...
|I am having a similar issue with the stall training and I
have seen my
| instructor perform the same technique you mentioned with
the power on stall,
| but he has not explained how he achieves it. Now I know
how he does it, but
| I still have a question. How do you prevent excessive
gain in altitude if
| you do not pitch high?
|
|
|
| "cjcampbell" wrote in
message
|
oups.com...
|
| Bubba wrote:
| Hello everyone,
|
| I'm sure you probably read at least 50 "newbie"
messages a week and I
| apologize in advance for this one. But as the subject
reads, I'm a new
| pilot in training. I've only been flying for about a
month now, but I
| only fly once a week, so really, I've only been up
four times now. I
| feel comfortable with my instructor and confident in
his knowledge and
| experience, but I have to admit, learning to fly is
much more difficult
| than it sounds/looks.
|
| So far, I feel confident in my ability to pre-flight
the aircraft, taxi
| on the taxi-ways, and take offs. I feel pretty good
about those three
| things. In other words, I can get myself in the air
and establish a
| steady altitude and fly (which I really enjoy).
However, my instructor
| is now showing me "stalls." These scare the living
hell out of me!!
| We've done power-off stalls for two sessions now and I
know what they
| feel like and can recover from them ok, but I really,
really don't like
| these.
|
| Also, last session, my instructor introduced me to
landings. Now, my
| log book only has about four hours of flight time in
it, so you can only
| imagine how this went. I'm really surprised the
Skyhawks landing gear
| held up to my abuse. Plus, for my first attempt, I
was trying to land
| with an unbelievable cross-wind. The wind was blowing
from right to
| left and from what I can tell, my instructor had the
right rudder pedal
| pressed all the way down. Again, this was scary as
hell. I'm still
| amazed we didn't crash.
|
| So I guess my question would be this: Can any of you
guys offer some
| advice on how to get through stall training and
landings because right
| now my confidence is shot.
|
| Thanks in advance,
| Terry
|
| Stalls: do them until they are fun. :-) Actually, you
are not the first
| student who did not like stalls. Check over on
rec.aviation.student and
| you will find that out real quick. In fact, you will
want to sign up
| over there because this is just the beginning of
questions that you
| will have that the folks over there will help with.
|
| Okay, you are uncomfortable with stalls at first. I
didn't like them,
| either. Most people don't. One way I help my students to
become more
| comfortable with them is I make the students hold on the
yoke by the
| center stem only. This keeps the student from turning
the yoke and
| banking the plane. Then, instead of recovering
immediately, I have the
| student just hold the airplane in a stall and keep the
nose straight
| and the wings level using rudder only. Do this with
power off stalls
| only, of course. I make a game out of it: how long can
you keep the
| wing from dipping? Pretty soon the student realizes that
the airplane
| is not going to do anything that he doesn't allow it to
do.
|
| Power on stalls are pretty easy to recover from. Most
students pitch
| too high and get too abrupt a recovery. As long as your
airspeed keeps
| coming back you will eventually stall. Once you do
stall, just relax
| the back pressure a little; too many people think they
have to push the
| yoke forward. You don't, just relax a little and the
nose will come
| down enough to break the stall. You will find that you
can move in and
| out of a power on stall just bobbing the nose up and
down a little. Try
| to see how little movement you can do it with.
|
| Now, you might think that messing around like this you
might get into a
| spin. Well, what of it? You have your instructor along
and he is
| supposed to know how to recover from mistakes like that.
Even so, it is
| unlikely because what I have you doing is just hovering
on the edge of
| a stall. Hanging on to the center of the yoke is also
going to keep you
| from making inappropriate aileron inputs.
|
| Usually when a student is having trouble with landing he
has not
| prepared well enough with slow flight and ground
reference maneuvers.
| Granted, the student begins landing almost from the
first lesson, but
| serious study of landings should begin only after the
basic work has
| been mastered. I usually hold off on landing practice
until just before
| solo, but that is still about half the pre-solo work you
have to do --
| crosswind landings, recovering from landing errors,
no-flap landings,
| etc.
|
| Look for these common errors: not looking far enough
down the runway,
| pulling up the nose too soon ("fear of runway"), and
poor airspeed
| control. Never practice more than three landings in a
row before having
| your instructor demonstrate another one. It helps to
keep from
| developing bad landing habits.
|
| Don't worry about the Skyhawk's landing gear. For
certification they
| drop the plane from something like 20 feet and if the
gear doesn't
| break, it passes. I can almost guarantee that you will
hurt yourself
| before you hurt the gear, with the exception of the nose
gear. If you
| must make a bad landing, at least don't drop it on the
nose gear. It
| just is not built to take it. Neither is the propeller,
engine, or
| firewall, all of which can be easily damaged by landing
on the nose
| gear. So don't do it.
|
|
|

The most important thing about learning to fly is to not give up. It
would be easy to do that when you become uncomfortable about any one of
the many aspects of learning to fly. Stick to it and what was
overwhelming last week will be easy next week.

I used to whip myself into a near panic attack thinking about landings.
The real thing was never as bad as I dreamed up. I did have a few
bounces and I thought that the landing gear was surely damaged beyond
repair, but it wasn't so. I would walk up and down the road near the
school before my lesson in order to relax my anxiety. It worked and now
I don't walk anywhere but into the FBO to get the keys to the plane. It
helped me to talk to other students in person and through this news
group. Seems like everyone has had similar experiences during the
training phase of learning to fly.

Practice builds confidence and enables you to become less tense about
the unusual attitudes you are placing your previously earthbound body.
Stick with it and enjoy the moments you will have in the air.


Tom

A cautionary note...don't fall into the trap of thinking that stalls have to
be done "right." After all, we never want to stall in real life. What you
are being exposed to is stall recognition, so you will know what to do if
you enter a stall inadvertently. Concentrate on how the controls feel, how
effective they are, and any buffeting of the elevator...that knowledge is
more important than doing the stall "right."

Bob Gardner

"Christopher Parker" wrote in message
...
I am having a similar issue with the stall training and I have seen my
instructor perform the same technique you mentioned with the power on
stall,
but he has not explained how he achieves it. Now I know how he does it,
but
I still have a question. How do you prevent excessive gain in altitude if
you do not pitch high?



"cjcampbell" wrote in message
oups.com...

Bubba wrote:
Hello everyone,

I'm sure you probably read at least 50 "newbie" messages a week and I
apologize in advance for this one. But as the subject reads, I'm a new
pilot in training. I've only been flying for about a month now, but I
only fly once a week, so really, I've only been up four times now. I
feel comfortable with my instructor and confident in his knowledge and
experience, but I have to admit, learning to fly is much more difficult
than it sounds/looks.

So far, I feel confident in my ability to pre-flight the aircraft, taxi
on the taxi-ways, and take offs. I feel pretty good about those three
things. In other words, I can get myself in the air and establish a
steady altitude and fly (which I really enjoy). However, my instructor
is now showing me "stalls." These scare the living hell out of me!!
We've done power-off stalls for two sessions now and I know what they
feel like and can recover from them ok, but I really, really don't like
these.

Also, last session, my instructor introduced me to landings. Now, my
log book only has about four hours of flight time in it, so you can
only
imagine how this went. I'm really surprised the Skyhawks landing gear
held up to my abuse. Plus, for my first attempt, I was trying to land
with an unbelievable cross-wind. The wind was blowing from right to
left and from what I can tell, my instructor had the right rudder pedal
pressed all the way down. Again, this was scary as hell. I'm still
amazed we didn't crash.

So I guess my question would be this: Can any of you guys offer some
advice on how to get through stall training and landings because right
now my confidence is shot.

Thanks in advance,
Terry

Stalls: do them until they are fun. :-) Actually, you are not the first
student who did not like stalls. Check over on rec.aviation.student and
you will find that out real quick. In fact, you will want to sign up
over there because this is just the beginning of questions that you
will have that the folks over there will help with.

Okay, you are uncomfortable with stalls at first. I didn't like them,
either. Most people don't. One way I help my students to become more
comfortable with them is I make the students hold on the yoke by the
center stem only. This keeps the student from turning the yoke and
banking the plane. Then, instead of recovering immediately, I have the
student just hold the airplane in a stall and keep the nose straight
and the wings level using rudder only. Do this with power off stalls
only, of course. I make a game out of it: how long can you keep the
wing from dipping? Pretty soon the student realizes that the airplane
is not going to do anything that he doesn't allow it to do.

Power on stalls are pretty easy to recover from. Most students pitch
too high and get too abrupt a recovery. As long as your airspeed keeps
coming back you will eventually stall. Once you do stall, just relax
the back pressure a little; too many people think they have to push the
yoke forward. You don't, just relax a little and the nose will come
down enough to break the stall. You will find that you can move in and
out of a power on stall just bobbing the nose up and down a little. Try
to see how little movement you can do it with.

Now, you might think that messing around like this you might get into a
spin. Well, what of it? You have your instructor along and he is
supposed to know how to recover from mistakes like that. Even so, it is
unlikely because what I have you doing is just hovering on the edge of
a stall. Hanging on to the center of the yoke is also going to keep you
from making inappropriate aileron inputs.

Usually when a student is having trouble with landing he has not
prepared well enough with slow flight and ground reference maneuvers.
Granted, the student begins landing almost from the first lesson, but
serious study of landings should begin only after the basic work has
been mastered. I usually hold off on landing practice until just before
solo, but that is still about half the pre-solo work you have to do --
crosswind landings, recovering from landing errors, no-flap landings,
etc.

Look for these common errors: not looking far enough down the runway,
pulling up the nose too soon ("fear of runway"), and poor airspeed
control. Never practice more than three landings in a row before having
your instructor demonstrate another one. It helps to keep from
developing bad landing habits.

Don't worry about the Skyhawk's landing gear. For certification they
drop the plane from something like 20 feet and if the gear doesn't
break, it passes. I can almost guarantee that you will hurt yourself
before you hurt the gear, with the exception of the nose gear. If you
must make a bad landing, at least don't drop it on the nose gear. It
just is not built to take it. Neither is the propeller, engine, or
firewall, all of which can be easily damaged by landing on the nose
gear. So don't do it.

"Christopher Parker" wrote in message
...
I am having a similar issue with the stall training and I have seen my
instructor perform the same technique you mentioned with the power on
stall,
but he has not explained how he achieves it. Now I know how he does it,
but
I still have a question. How do you prevent excessive gain in altitude if
you do not pitch high?

Unusually high nose attitudes in power on stalls are almost always the
result of an improper set up for doing the stall. This involves excessive
energy (airspeed) that has to be bled off, especially in airplanes with
fairly powerful engines.
There's no need for an excessively high nose attitude when doing a power on
stall.
Try slowing the airplane first by throttling on back while rotating in
pitch, right on down to normal climb speed, then continue to rotate in pitch
while applying climb power to a normal climb attitude . From there simply
continue to increase pitch smoothly on into critical angle of attack where
the stall will occur.
Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
k.net...

Unusually high nose attitudes in power on stalls are almost always the
result of an improper set up for doing the stall. This involves excessive
energy (airspeed) that has to be bled off, especially in airplanes with
fairly powerful engines.
There's no need for an excessively high nose attitude when doing a power
on stall.
Try slowing the airplane first by throttling on back while rotating in
pitch, right on down to normal climb speed, then continue to rotate in
pitch while applying climb power to a normal climb attitude . From there
simply continue to increase pitch smoothly on into critical angle of
attack where the stall will occur.
Dudley Henriques


How true...

After my first couple of attempts, my instructor (semi jokingly) admonished
me for attempting to perform a loop.

Jay B

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:9Ajlf.20$6N2.14@fed1read06...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
k.net...

Unusually high nose attitudes in power on stalls are almost always the
result of an improper set up for doing the stall. This involves excessive
energy (airspeed) that has to be bled off, especially in airplanes with
fairly powerful engines.
There's no need for an excessively high nose attitude when doing a power
on stall.
Try slowing the airplane first by throttling on back while rotating in
pitch, right on down to normal climb speed, then continue to rotate in
pitch while applying climb power to a normal climb attitude . From there
simply continue to increase pitch smoothly on into critical angle of
attack where the stall will occur.
Dudley Henriques


How true...

After my first couple of attempts, my instructor (semi jokingly)
admonished me for attempting to perform a loop.

I saw Richard Petty try this at Telladega once, but the fence got in the
way and spoiled it for him.
:-)
D

Its is not at all unusual for you to feel that way at this
point in your training. After you have practiced landings
and stalls more you will fear them less and one day soon
you'll be out there and discover yourself doing them
remarkably well.

Persistance and diligence is the name of the game.

In article ,
kontiki wrote:

Its is not at all unusual for you to feel that way at this
point in your training. After you have practiced landings
and stalls more you will fear them less and one day soon
you'll be out there and discover yourself doing them
remarkably well.

Persistance and diligence is the name of the game.


I certainly will take all advice given to me and once I again, I thank
each and every one of you for offering your advice and encouragement. I
spoke with my instructor today and told him that I thought I was pushing
the yoke too far forward when attempting to recover from the power-off
stall and he agreed. So, this coming Saturday, we're going up to
practice power-off stalls and landings. I will certainly post on how it
goes, but probably in the rec.aviation.student group as it is more
appropriate to where I am in my training.

Thanks to you all!!
Terry

Terry,

The previous posters have all offered very good advice! I'm only
chiming in to emphasize the fact that after four lessons, you shouldn't
feel discouraged!

Stalls are naturally intimidating,when you first do them, but they
shouldn't scare you You should start to master them in no time.

Landings however... I don't remember how long it actually took, but I
swore I was never going to feel comfortable with them! Just like
anything else, it takes practice. Be patient, stick with it and before
you know it your instructor will ask you to pull off on the nearest
taxi way, hop out and give you a thumbs-up as you start back-taxiing
for your first solo flight!

Hang in there and don't get discouraged!

Best Regards,
Todd

And then afterwards ask you (in jest) how it felt to break your first FAR
because you went flying without having your student certificate endorsed for
solo before (s)he hopped out ...

{;-)


Jim




"three-eight-hotel" wrote in message
oups.com...

Be patient, stick with it and before
you know it your instructor will ask you to pull off on the nearest
taxi way, hop out and give you a thumbs-up as you start back-taxiing
for your first solo flight!