Punch test?

Michael Horowitz wrote:
the punch test on fabric... are the results a go/no-go decision, or
can an A&P make a determination as to how long the covering will last
based on the test? - Mike

Mike, I haven't read RAH in a few days, and I'm just now catching up,
but your question has drawn a emphatic response from Jim Weir, R.S.
Hoover, AND Cy Galley that you should replace the fabric.

I've been reading this group for a while now, and think I have learned
who knows what they're talking about and who might blow a little smoke
now and then. I would have to say that this is a unique situation.
Dude, if you value your hide, you better ground that plane until the
fabric is replaced no matter how much it cost.

--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."

Ernest Christley wrote:
Michael Horowitz wrote:

the punch test on fabric... are the results a go/no-go decision, or
can an A&P make a determination as to how long the covering will last
based on the test? - Mike


Mike, I haven't read RAH in a few days, and I'm just now catching up,
but your question has drawn a emphatic response from Jim Weir, R.S.
Hoover, AND Cy Galley that you should replace the fabric.

I've been reading this group for a while now, and think I have learned
who knows what they're talking about and who might blow a little smoke
now and then. I would have to say that this is a unique situation.
Dude, if you value your hide, you better ground that plane until the
fabric is replaced no matter how much it cost.

Just because the fabric is 25 years old does not mean that it needs
replacement.
It means that it needs a good close inspection, which includes punch
testing.
Is the dope cracked anywhere? Anywhere there is a crack there could be
UV damage.
Check for ringworm, pretty much the same thing as cracking. Get inside
it on a bright day and see where the light comes through the fabric.
Look for loose spots where the glue may have come loose. Squeeze the
training edges of the control surfaces and see if there is any
crunchyness. That will indicate corrosion.
Discoloration of the dope along metal parts will indicate rust.

If it all seems good, buy it with the understanding that it may need
recovering in the next few years and the price should reflect that.

But like all old aircraft, it's not so much age but condition.


Dave

How can one take a ONE word answer to the question... "will the punch test
tell how much longer the fabric will last?" and turn it into replace the
fabric is beyond me!
--
Cy Galley - Chair,
Air Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot

wrote in message ...


Ernest Christley wrote:
Michael Horowitz wrote:

the punch test on fabric... are the results a go/no-go decision, or
can an A&P make a determination as to how long the covering will last
based on the test? - Mike


Mike, I haven't read RAH in a few days, and I'm just now catching up, but
your question has drawn a emphatic response from Jim Weir, R.S. Hoover,
AND Cy Galley that you should replace the fabric.

I've been reading this group for a while now, and think I have learned
who knows what they're talking about and who might blow a little smoke
now and then. I would have to say that this is a unique situation. Dude,
if you value your hide, you better ground that plane until the fabric is
replaced no matter how much it cost.

Just because the fabric is 25 years old does not mean that it needs
replacement.
It means that it needs a good close inspection, which includes punch
testing.
Is the dope cracked anywhere? Anywhere there is a crack there could be UV
damage.
Check for ringworm, pretty much the same thing as cracking. Get inside it
on a bright day and see where the light comes through the fabric.
Look for loose spots where the glue may have come loose. Squeeze the
training edges of the control surfaces and see if there is any
crunchyness. That will indicate corrosion.
Discoloration of the dope along metal parts will indicate rust.

If it all seems good, buy it with the understanding that it may need
recovering in the next few years and the price should reflect that.

But like all old aircraft, it's not so much age but condition.


Dave

Cy Galley wrote:
How can one take a ONE word answer to the question... "will the punch test
tell how much longer the fabric will last?" and turn it into replace the
fabric is beyond me!

Quite right. I read WAY to much into your postings. I was being to
clever by half.

I began reading to much between the lines with Veedubber's comment that
it just isn't the fabric, but also the supporting structures underneath
that have been hidden for 25yrs.

I explained to Veedubber that I'm a scaredy-cat about what Father Time
and his insidious sidekick Water Vapor will do to a structure over the
years. Personally, I'd replace the fabric, but Veedubber informed me
that there are devices that can ultrasonically test for hidden rust and
defects. (Is it safe to assume that questionable wood can also be picked
up?)

Cy, Jim and Veedubber, please accept my apologies.

--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."

BULL****. DO NOT put words in my mouth. Nowhere did I say that the fabric
should be replaced. NOr did Bob or Cy. We simply said that a punch test
should be taken at face value. If it punches green, fly. If it punches
grey replace it. NOWHERE did we say that the fabric should be replaced.

Jim




"Ernest Christley" wrote in message
om...
Michael Horowitz wrote:
the punch test on fabric... are the results a go/no-go decision, or
can an A&P make a determination as to how long the covering will last
based on the test? - Mike

Mike, I haven't read RAH in a few days, and I'm just now catching up, but
your question has drawn a emphatic response from Jim Weir, R.S. Hoover,
AND Cy Galley that you should replace the fabric.

I've been reading this group for a while now, and think I have learned who
knows what they're talking about and who might blow a little smoke now and
then. I would have to say that this is a unique situation. Dude, if you
value your hide, you better ground that plane until the fabric is replaced
no matter how much it cost.rt them (and ourselves)."