Under the heading of Truly Weird

Both of my parents died in Phoenix (altho neither is buried in AZ)
and as the mortuary explained it to me, if a person is NOT under
direct treatment of a physician, it's considered a suspicious
death. Altho neither of my parents were in the hospital, both
were under a physician's care (both died at home, 15 yrs apart, tho)
so there was no question of "suspicious death".

On 26 Oct 2005 17:45:15 GMT, Blanche wrote
in ::

as the mortuary explained it to me, if a person is NOT under
direct treatment of a physician, it's considered a suspicious
death.

Thank you for the information.

So it's a matter of having the attending physician provide a cause of
death, or if there is no physician in attendance, having the coroner
perform an autopsy to determine the cause of death.

Walker said that the victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid
student pilot's certificate and that the plane, a 1961 Nord owned by
the Lundells, was not registered.

Sounds to me like the distraught doctor/father/aircraft owner is going to be
answering some hard questions.

Like, why was he allowing his son -- apparently not a pilot -- to fly an
unregistered aircraft?

Something smells here.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:05:05 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote in
5aL7f.472413$x96.177672@attbi_s72::

Like, why was he allowing his son -- apparently not a pilot -- to fly an
unregistered aircraft?

The son was not a minor.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:05:05 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote in
5aL7f.472413$x96.177672@attbi_s72::

Like, why was he allowing his son -- apparently not a pilot -- to fly an
unregistered aircraft?

The son was not a minor.


I know what you mean but, the aircraft was apparently owned by the father so
unless you have reason to believe the son stole it the father did, in fact,
ALLOW his son to fly it.

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:12:45 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in C1N7f.11353$Ix3.8953@dukeread05::


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:05:05 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote in
5aL7f.472413$x96.177672@attbi_s72::

Like, why was he allowing his son -- apparently not a pilot -- to fly an
unregistered aircraft?

The son was not a minor.


I know what you mean but, the aircraft was apparently owned by the father so
unless you have reason to believe the son stole it the father did, in fact,
ALLOW his son to fly it.


Given "Mark and his other son were watching."*, perhaps that's true.

The "facts" presented by the news media in this case leave a lot to be
desired.

"Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) officials say the victim
had an expired pilot's license."*

Donn Walker of the FAA's Los Angeles regional office said that the
victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid student pilot's
certificate**


A search of FAA certification data yields:

https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airm...niqid=A4254954

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JACOB ADAM LUNDELL
Address:
Street 6341 N MOCKINGBIRD LN
City PARADISE VALLEY State ARIZONA
County MARICOPA Zip Code 85253-5313
Country UNITED STATES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Medical:
Medical Class : Third Medical Date: 03/2001

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CertIficates

1 of 1
DOI : 03/05/2001
CertIficate: STUDENT PILOT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the question seems to be, why would a 21 year old Student Pilot
with an expired Medical Certificate choose to fly an unregistered
aircraft as his father and brother watched?

But this gets curiouser; there is an interesting aspect to the
aircraft registration (or lack thereof):

http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/nnum...umbertxt=22532
FAA Registry
N-Number Inquiry Results


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
N22532 is Assigned
Assigned/Registered Aircraft

Aircraft Description

Serial Number 54 Type Registration Individual
Manufacturer Name NORD Certificate Issue Date None
Model 3202 Status In Question
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50373160
MFR Year 1961 Fractional Owner NO


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registered Owner

Name SALE REPORTED
Street PO BOX 835
City THATCHER State ARIZONA Zip Code 85253
County MARICOPA
Country UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Airworthiness

Engine Manufacturer AMA/EXPR Classification Experimental
Engine Model UNKNOWN ENG Category Exhibition

A/W Date 08/29/1980


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other Owner Names
SOLD TO FOOTE DEBORAH A

Street 6341 N MOCKINGBIRD LN
City PARADISE VALLEY State ARIZONA Zip Code 85253
County MARICOPA
Country UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Temporary Certificate
None


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It appears the owner of the aircraft resides at the same address as
the victim.

It would appear that Ms. Foote also has two other aircraft registered
in her name:

http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/nnum...umbertxt=500AM
FAA Registry
N-Number Inquiry Results


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
N500AM is Assigned

Assigned/Registered Aircraft
Aircraft Description

Serial Number 6501 Type Registration Individual
Manufacturer Name BEECH Certificate Issue Date 11/12/1993
Model AT-11 Status Valid
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 51434774
MFR Year 1941 Fractional Owner NO


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registered Owner

Name FOOTE DEBORAH A
Street 6341 N MOCKINGBIRD LN
City PARADISE VALLEY State ARIZONA Zip Code 85253
County MARICOPA
Country UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Airworthiness

Engine Manufacturer P&W Classification Experimental
Engine Model R-985 SERIES Category Research and Development

A/W Date 05/19/1981


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/nnum...umbertxt=3253K
FAA Registry
N-Number Inquiry Results


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
N3253K is Assigned
Assigned/Registered Aircraft
Aircraft Description

Serial Number 1246 Type Registration Individual
Manufacturer Name GLOBE Certificate Issue Date 10/31/1991
Model GC-1B Status Undel Tri
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50701656
MFR Year 1946 Fractional Owner NO


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registered Owner

Name FOOTE DEBORAH A
Street PO BOX 835
City THATCHER State ARIZONA Zip Code 85552
County GRAHAM
Country UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Airworthiness

Engine Manufacturer CONT MOTOR Classification Standard
Engine Model IO-360 SER Category Normal

A/W Date 07/12/1979


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But there is no record for Ms. Foote in the Airman's database.
However, the victim's father has been issued an airman's certificate:



https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airm...niqid=A1159048
FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MARK WARREN LUNDELL
Address

Address is not available

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medical
Medical Class : Third Medical Date: 10/2000

MUST HAVE AVAILABLE GLASSES FOR NEAR VISION.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CertIficates

1 of 1
DOI : 09/24/1990
CertIficate: COMMERCIAL PILOT

Rating(s):

COMMERCIAL PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
Limits
CARRYING PASSENGERS IN AIRPLANES FOR HIRE IS PROHIBITED AT NIGHT
AND ON CROSS-COUNTRY FLIGHTS OF MORE THAN 50 NAUTICAL MILES.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is also a record for another airman by the name of Lundell with
an address near the victim:


https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airm...niqid=A4373665
FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DONALD ALLAN FOOTE
Address
Street PO BOX 145

City ARLINGTON State ARIZONA
County MARICOPA Zip Code 85322-0145
Country UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medical
Medical Class : Third Medical Date: 12/2002


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CertIficates
1 of 1

DOI : 12/09/2002
CertIficate: STUDENT PILOT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The more one researches this mishap, the curiouser it becomes.


"Local police say they did not violate any laws, but the National
Transportation Safety Board says it is against federal law to
remove anything from the scene of a plane crash."*

"Walker said the FAA is investigating possible federal violations,
including the removal of the body from the crash site."**

"There are several Arizona statutes that address such situations.
One requires that human body cannot be removed from the scene of a
suspicious death unless a county medical examiner gives
permission."**

"Andrea Esquer, a spokeswoman for the Arizona Attorney General's
Office, would not comment on the state's position, pending the
outcome of the probe by U.S. authorities."**

Why would enforcement of the state law be affected by the FAA's
investigation of possible federal violations? Is it a case of who has
jurisdiction?


"Deborah Lundell told Channel 3 (KTVK) that her husband brought
their son's body home because "he knew my grieving, he knew my
heartache; he knew I needed to see him before they took him
away."

Mark Lundell did the right thing in allowing the family to say
goodbye, she told the TV station."**

It appears the victim's mother was named Deborah, just like the person
to whom the apparent accident aircraft was reported sold.


* http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=4022990&nav=23Ku

** http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...necrash25.html

wrote in message
oups.com...

More info he

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...necrash25.html

Surgeon in trouble for removing son's body from plane crash

Police found debris of craft - no body

Thomas Ropp
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 25, 2005 12:00 AM

SNIP
Case Grande police got the identifying N-number off the plane tail and
located a Paradise Valley address.

SNIP
Walker said that the victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid
student pilot's certificate and that the plane, a 1961 Nord owned by
the Lundells, was not registered.



If the aircraft wasn't registered how did they tie it to a Paradise Valley
address?

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:27:44 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...

More info he

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...necrash25.html

Surgeon in trouble for removing son's body from plane crash

Police found debris of craft - no body

Thomas Ropp
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 25, 2005 12:00 AM

SNIP
Case Grande police got the identifying N-number off the plane tail and
located a Paradise Valley address.

SNIP
Walker said that the victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid
student pilot's certificate and that the plane, a 1961 Nord owned by
the Lundells, was not registered.



If the aircraft wasn't registered how did they tie it to a Paradise Valley
address?

Start asking FBOs in the area if it's based there and then see where
the tidedown bills etc are being mailed?

For something like an aircraft there's always a paper trail (hangar
bills, maintenance records, etc), it's just a matter of how long it
takes to track through it.

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 08:27:44 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote:


wrote in message
groups.com...

More info he

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...necrash25.html

Surgeon in trouble for removing son's body from plane crash

Police found debris of craft - no body

Thomas Ropp
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 25, 2005 12:00 AM

SNIP
Case Grande police got the identifying N-number off the plane tail and
located a Paradise Valley address.

SNIP
Walker said that the victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid
student pilot's certificate and that the plane, a 1961 Nord owned by
the Lundells, was not registered.



If the aircraft wasn't registered how did they tie it to a Paradise Valley
address?

Start asking FBOs in the area if it's based there and then see where
the tidedown bills etc are being mailed?

For something like an aircraft there's always a paper trail (hangar
bills, maintenance records, etc), it's just a matter of how long it
takes to track through it.

I understand that but they did it fast enough to get the police to the house
before the father arrived there with the son. So while they might well have
gotten the address of the owners home from people at the airport I doubt the
N-number had anything to do with it.

Gig 601XL Builder wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote:

I understand that but they did it fast enough to get the police to the house
before the father arrived there with the son. So while they might well have
gotten the address of the owners home from people at the airport I doubt the
N-number had anything to do with it.

The license plate of the truck taking away the body was reported to the
police by those who also came upon the scene.

This fact was in one of the stories about this tragedy.

--
Peter
























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