Logging PIC time as student instrument pilot in IMC

Sydney Hoeltzli wrote in message ...

Correct.

The regs have to *require* more than one pilot. Usually an ASEL flown under
IFR does not require more than one pilot by regulation. So it would seem not
to count.

However, if you are saying "given that this is a flight under IFR where the
controls are manipulated by a non-IR pilot, then the regulations do require
two pilots: the PF and the PNF/PIC", then they can log it.

Yes, exactly. That appears to be the General Counsel interpretation --
Andrew Sarangan had a General Counsel letter on his website relevant to
the topic. Ron Rosenfeld referred to one. I have an email
correspondence with John Lynch of a few years back where he initially
disagreed, then consulted the GC office and came back concurring.

That's why we felt it was appropriate to log it as we did (why we
chose to log it that way is a seperate issue)


But the flying pilot must be under a hood in order for the non-flying
(acting as PIC ) pilot to log PIC too. Actual instrument doesn't cut
it because there is no FAR requiring multiple crew for part 91 IFR,
there is one for wearing a hood.

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:48:03 -0700, "David Brooks"
wrote:

However, if you are saying "given that this is a flight under IFR where the
controls are manipulated by a non-IR pilot, then the regulations do require
two pilots: the PF and the PNF/PIC", then they can log it.

If I understand you correctly, I believe this statement of yours is wrong.
Given a light SEL a/c, what regulation requires *two* pilots under the
circumstances you put forth?

I'm not aware of any such regulation.

The fact that the person manipulating the controls is not legal to act as
PIC under IFR does not lead to a regulatory requirement to have two pilots
in the aircraft. The only pilot that is *required* is the one who is
acting as PIC. The PF is not *required* by the regulations.

So in the instance where the acting PIC/PNF is not a CFI(I) giving
instruction, the PNF cannot log PIC time.

An instance where the non-CFI PNF may log PIC time because of a regulatory
requirement for two pilots would be when the PNF is acting as a safety
pilot in simulated instrument conditions. Under that circumstance, two
pilots are required by the regulations (91.109) and both may log PIC time.




Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

A lot of these situations are covered in the FAA's Part 61 Frequently Asked
Questions:

http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/afs800/docs/pt61FAQ.doc

This is a big file (about 2.2MB).

Barry

No instrument rating is required to log actual. In fact, there are
times when you can log actual in VMC (dark moonless night over water
is the FAA example).
Of course, you cannot, cannot serve as PIC in IMC or anytime while on
an IFR clearance but I assume your CFII took care of that.



"Marty Ross" wrote in message et...
I recently realized that I should not have included any "actual" (IMC) time
recorded in my logbook as PIC time while I was an instrument student.

Any suggestions for correcting this error? Rather than making messy
corrections and recalculating page totals, how about adding a "corrective"
(new) entry?

More generally, are there any accepted conventions for retroactively
correcting logbook errors?