Primary nav source

On 12/2/05 9:36 AM, in article ,
"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 23:03:15 -0500, Wizard of Draws
wrote:

The recent GPS/IFR discussions here got me to thinking. I generally fly an
Arrow, equipped with a Garmin 430, 2 VORs, Loran, my handheld GPS, my
sectionals, low enroute charts, and since I got my IFR ticket, I try to fly
under ATC control as often as possible to keep my comm skills up.

On cross county flights, I fiddle with the VORs and cross check my location,
I set the Loran (if it's working that day), etc. In other words, for
navigation, I use everything inside and out the cockpit that is operational.

Which one is considered primary?

What do *you* mean by "primary"?

I don't see "primary" defined in either 1.1 or the P/CG in the sense of
navigation equipment. However, there is this quote from the AIM which may
be applicable to your situation. Note that the use of GPS as "primary"
(from an FAA point of view) depends on where you are using it:

"...The FAA has granted approval for U.S. civil operators to use properly
certified GPS equipment as a primary means of navigation in oceanic
airspace and certain remote areas. Properly certified GPS equipment may be
used as a supplemental means of IFR navigation for domestic en route,
terminal operations, and certain instrument approach procedures (IAPs). "

Also:

"VFR and hand-held GPS systems are not authorized for IFR navigation,
instrument approaches, or as a primary instrument flight reference. During
IFR operations they may be considered only an aid to situational
awareness."


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Enroute, I can't always be sure what would be considered my primary nav
source "from an FAA point of view" since I'm using more than one, that's
why I started this thread.

I can file direct, but that isn't always immediately given me by ATC upon
takeoff. It seems I'm usually given vectors and my "primary" navigation is
the guy looking at me with the radar, I'm just looking at my DG, following
instructions and cross-checking my position with everything I've got on
hand. Once I get to a certain point, then I'm given "direct to XYX" and I
"resume own navigation" from there and the Garmin 430 is most likely my
primary.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 20:59:57 -0500, Wizard of Draws
wrote:

Enroute, I can't always be sure what would be considered my primary nav
source "from an FAA point of view" since I'm using more than one, that's
why I started this thread.

As I wrote, the FAA doesn't define "primary" in the PC/G and it's not
defined in 14 CFR 1.1.

If there is a need for you to have a definitive answer, you could try
writing the FAA Chief Counsel. But there may be no answer forthcoming
unless there is some operational reason to come up with one.

And, in the case of a non-commercial Part 91 small aircraft flight, such as
it seems you are describing, I don't see an operational reason to answer
that question.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On 12/3/05 8:07 AM, in article ,
"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote:

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 20:59:57 -0500, Wizard of Draws
wrote:

Enroute, I can't always be sure what would be considered my primary nav
source "from an FAA point of view" since I'm using more than one, that's
why I started this thread.

As I wrote, the FAA doesn't define "primary" in the PC/G and it's not
defined in 14 CFR 1.1.

If there is a need for you to have a definitive answer, you could try
writing the FAA Chief Counsel. But there may be no answer forthcoming
unless there is some operational reason to come up with one.

And, in the case of a non-commercial Part 91 small aircraft flight, such as
it seems you are describing, I don't see an operational reason to answer
that question.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

If the FAA says I can't use a VFR GPS as my primary nav source, that
indicates to me that they must have a way of defining it, or at least expect
me to be able to, although without telling me how. But I guess I'm expecting
logic from a government agency.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 10:20:32 -0500, Wizard of Draws
wrote:

... I guess I'm expecting logic from a government agency.

Ah -- there's your error sigh!!

"We're from the FAA, and we're not happy until you're not happy!"





Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 20:59:57 -0500, Wizard of Draws
wrote:


Enroute, I can't always be sure what would be considered my primary nav
source "from an FAA point of view" since I'm using more than one, that's
why I started this thread.


As I wrote, the FAA doesn't define "primary" in the PC/G and it's not
defined in 14 CFR 1.1.

If there is a need for you to have a definitive answer, you could try
writing the FAA Chief Counsel. But there may be no answer forthcoming
unless there is some operational reason to come up with one.

And, in the case of a non-commercial Part 91 small aircraft flight, such as
it seems you are describing, I don't see an operational reason to answer
that question.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

The FAA doesn't need a regultion to set forth policy. The FAA policy
remains that VOR is the primary method for domestic en route IFR
navigation. This is related to the ICAO definitions of Class I and
Class II navigation.

The recent GPS/IFR discussions here got me to thinking. I generally fly an
Arrow, equipped with a Garmin 430, 2 VORs, Loran, my handheld GPS, my
sectionals, low enroute charts, and since I got my IFR ticket, I try to
fly
under ATC control as often as possible to keep my comm skills up.

On cross county flights, I fiddle with the VORs and cross check my
location,
I set the Loran (if it's working that day), etc. In other words, for
navigation, I use everything inside and out the cockpit that is
operational.

Which one is considered primary?

The one providing course guidance on your HSI. If you're not HSI equipped,
its the CDI somewhere in the cockpit that you use for course guidance. If
you use a bunch of stuff at the same time, then the question doesn't mean
anything.

Y'all,
Consider the latest out of date sectional
Gene Whitt

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 02:35:41 GMT, "Gene Whitt"
wrote:

Y'all,
Consider the latest out of date sectional

You have them that new?

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Gene Whitt