Garmin 430

wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:


Basically, if you don't have a glide slope receiver, you won't be able
to fly any precision approaches. If you don't have an ADF, you won't
be able to fly any NDB approaches (not that there are that many left).


They're disappearing, but they're not quite dead yet. I count 29 in
New York and New Jersey alone -- I don't know how often they're
actually used, but at least they're still publishing the plates in the
current cycle:

....and there are plenty of airports in Canada where the only approach requires
an ADF, also in the rest of the world outside the US.

The 430 does indeed have a glideslope receiver. You will have to use a
Garmin indicator to make it work. It is a great box, and second only to the
530 in functionality. I have one of each in two different planes.

Mark,

The 430 does not have a glide slope. It is not certified for use in
precision approaches. It does have a page that will show you the CDI
for tracking VOR and Localizers, etc.

Are you kidding? Of course the 430 has a glideslope receiver. It doesn't
have an INDICATOR, but that's a different thing. You need a separate CDI
indicator anyway to be certified for IFR approaches - the built-in page
won't do. That CDI/glide slope indicator may contain the required
annunciators, too.

Is this one piece of equipment enough to enable my 172 to be instrument
certified?

Well, here you have to be careful. There are some who will argue that
you can legally fly IFR with nothing more than a hand-held GPS unit.

I don't think so.


You can review FAR 91.205 for required equipment and instruments, and
specifically sub-section (d), which covers IFR.



Yep.
--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

My 430 has glideslope as do all the others I have seen. Where are you
getting the idea that it does not?

Mike
MU-2


"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 12/6/2005 15:25, wrote:

I have a VFR only 172 and I am considering IFR training.

I am looking for the most practical way to make my plane IFR certified
and useful.

At first glance, it appears to me that the Garmin 430 provides a LOT of
useful information for relatively not much money.

I have 2 questions though....

to use the glideslope / VOR / LOC functions of the 430, do I have to
have a glide slope indicator and VOR indicator or are these bits of
information displayed on hte 430 unit?


The 430 does not have a glide slope. It is not certified for use in
precision approaches. It does have a page that will show you the CDI
for tracking VOR and Localizers, etc.

Is this one piece of equipment enough to enable my 172 to be instrument
certified?

Well, here you have to be careful. There are some who will argue that
you can legally fly IFR with nothing more than a hand-held GPS unit.

You can review FAR 91.205 for required equipment and instruments, and
specifically sub-section (d), which covers IFR.

The Garmin GNS 430 is a TSO C-129 certified unit, so although it can
be used as the sole means of IFR navigation, you must have an alternate
means of navigation on board and functional (there's a lot more to this,
but this is the jist of it).

There is a section in the AIM that talks about the use of a GPS system
in lieu of other navigation equipment, and when it is allowed. You should
check that out as well.

Basically, if you don't have a glide slope receiver, you won't be able
to fly any precision approaches. If you don't have an ADF, you won't
be able to fly any NDB approaches (not that there are that many left).

Let me know if you have any more questions, and watch out: there are
going to be a lot of opinions on this one (just look at the other
GPS threads over the last couple of months or so...).



I realize that I will be needing backup instruments to reliably fly in
IMC, that will come with time...what I need now is training and learned
proficiency.

Simulators can help with some types of proficiency. Let me know if you
want to talk about that.


Thanks,

Jamie A. Landers
PP-ASEL



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

On 12/6/2005 15:50, Mark Hansen wrote:

On 12/6/2005 15:25, wrote:

I have a VFR only 172 and I am considering IFR training.

I am looking for the most practical way to make my plane IFR certified
and useful.

At first glance, it appears to me that the Garmin 430 provides a LOT of
useful information for relatively not much money.

I have 2 questions though....

to use the glideslope / VOR / LOC functions of the 430, do I have to
have a glide slope indicator and VOR indicator or are these bits of
information displayed on hte 430 unit?


The 430 does not have a glide slope. It is not certified for use in
precision approaches. It does have a page that will show you the CDI
for tracking VOR and Localizers, etc.


Oops, I meant the unit in GPS mode. The unit can be placed in VLOC mode
and used with an ILS station, assuming you have the right indicators
(CDI w/glide slope).

I thought the poster was asking about the use of the 430 as a stand-alone
unit with no other instrumentation.

Is this one piece of equipment enough to enable my 172 to be instrument
certified?

Well, here you have to be careful. There are some who will argue that
you can legally fly IFR with nothing more than a hand-held GPS unit.

You can review FAR 91.205 for required equipment and instruments, and
specifically sub-section (d), which covers IFR.

The Garmin GNS 430 is a TSO C-129 certified unit, so although it can
be used as the sole means of IFR navigation, you must have an alternate
means of navigation on board and functional (there's a lot more to this,
but this is the jist of it).

There is a section in the AIM that talks about the use of a GPS system
in lieu of other navigation equipment, and when it is allowed. You should
check that out as well.

Basically, if you don't have a glide slope receiver, you won't be able
to fly any precision approaches. If you don't have an ADF, you won't
be able to fly any NDB approaches (not that there are that many left).

Let me know if you have any more questions, and watch out: there are
going to be a lot of opinions on this one (just look at the other
GPS threads over the last couple of months or so...).



I realize that I will be needing backup instruments to reliably fly in
IMC, that will come with time...what I need now is training and learned
proficiency.

Simulators can help with some types of proficiency. Let me know if you
want to talk about that.


Thanks,

Jamie A. Landers
PP-ASEL





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

Mark,

I thought the poster was asking about the use of the 430 as a stand-alone
unit with no other instrumentation.


That would not be an instrument-certified installation.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On 12/6/2005 5:25 PM, wrote the
following:

At first glance, it appears to me that the Garmin 430 provides a LOT of
useful information for relatively not much money.


It's a great box. IMHO, anyway. I don't care so much for
the SL30 nav/com but the 430 is very well thought out.

I have 2 questions though....

to use the glideslope / VOR / LOC functions of the 430, do I have to
have a glide slope indicator and VOR indicator or are these bits of
information displayed on hte 430 unit?


Contrary to a previous response, the G430 does have a glide
slope function as part of the VLOC function. At least the
one that I fly with does. The 430 does not indicate either
the localizer or the glide slope on its screen however. You
need to buy the separate indicator (CDI).

Garmin has a free simulator and free downloads of the
manuals from their web site. Get the sim and the manuals
and you can learn the box in maybe 5 hours. Enough to get
started flying with it and certainly enough to evaluate it
thoroughly. You should have someone who knows the 430 in
the right seat for the first few flights IMHO.

Is this one piece of equipment enough to enable my 172 to be instrument
certified?


No. Required flight instruments are specified in Part 91.

Mitty wrote:
Garmin has a free simulator and free downloads of the
manuals from their web site. Get the sim and the manuals
and you can learn the box in maybe 5 hours. Enough to get
started flying with it and certainly enough to evaluate it
thoroughly. You should have someone who knows the 430 in
the right seat for the first few flights IMHO.


I cannot emphasize enough how much their simulator helped me get comfortable
with the 430. Not only can you set it up to initialize from your home airport,
you can goose the throttle all the way up to 600 knots so the enroute portion of
your practice flights can be accelerated.

Since I only fly rental aircraft these days, the radios seem to vary widely in
each one available to me. One thing that has become almost universal among the
rental fleet where I live is the Garmin 430. I had been out of flying for
almost 15 years and learned on steam gauges. The Garmin was very intimidating
initially... but the simulator fixed that. And it's free!

http://www.garmin.com/software/simulators/TRAIN430.EXE




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Forget the 430, get a 480.
The 480 is WAAS certified out of the box.
Garmin has been promising WAAS for the 430 since they started selling
them.

john smith wrote:

Forget the 430, get a 480.
The 480 is WAAS certified out of the box.
Garmin has been promising WAAS for the 430 since they started selling
them.

Garmin will, in time, provide the WAAS upgrade for the 400/500 series.
The upgrade will also provide additional computational horsepower for
stuff like radius-to-fix (RF) legs.