New Study, Cell Phones cause problems in cockpit.

Judah wrote in
:

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in
:


I also liked this little tidbit...

QUOTE

And despite the ban on cell phone use during flights, the researchers
discovered that on average one to four cell phone calls are made from
every commercial flight in the northeast United States.

Some are even made during critical flight times, such as the climb
after takeoff or the final approach.

/QUOTE


The latter quote is most interesting because I've never had or heard of
a cell phone that even worked above about 3000'AGL...

You may not be able to _use_ the cell phone to make a call, but when
it is on, it is still transmitting in an attempt to connect to a cell.
It's those transmissions that would be causing the interference.

Brian
--
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Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Although I'm not surprised that electronic devices can interfere, I am
a little suprised they can interfere when the cockpit door is closed
and the devices are some distance (several rows), away.


Ah... the aviionics displays may be in the cockpit, and the computes may be
in an avionics bay behind or below the cockpit, but there is wiring all over
the airplane carrying data do and from sensors and antannae located
throughout the aircraft. Remember one case on the ASRS reports stating that
simply having a pax trade seats with the person next ot him solved an
issue... could likely be that a data line ran right below the first seat,
but not the second. In one scenario i think it was tracked down to a
specific brand of laptop, with a specific hard disk in it... nothing related
to wifi, or any other radio signals for that matter.

I am surprised tho at the number of idjuts that continue to use their
hellphones after they are told to turn them off, and yes I have seen people
use them in flight, and get quite vocal when told by an FA to turn it off.
Gotta love all the oblivious chattle out there that have to have everything
their way all of the time... the real world isn't Burger King folks......

Gig,

Well, this:

And despite the ban on cell phone use during flights, the researchers
discovered that on average one to four cell phone calls are made from every
commercial flight in the northeast United States.

Some are even made during critical flight times, such as the climb after
takeoff or the final approach.

kind of contradicts this, doesn't it?

However, the CMU study concluded otherwise. While the researchers looked
primarily at cell phone use, they also discovered that emissions from other
portable devices proved "problematic."

"We found that the risk posed by these portable devices is higher than
previously believed," researcher Bill Strauss said in a release announcing
the findings.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On 2006-03-01, Gig 601XL Builder wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote:
Some are even made during critical flight times, such as the climb after
takeoff or the final approach.

I've had personal experience of someone's phone going off.

It was just the two of us in a Grumman Cheetah. My friend was doing his
first for-real ILS in IMC. It wasn't a particularly low IFR night, bases
were probably around 800 ft or so.

He had forgotten to switch off his phone. Just as we were intercepting
the localizer, his wife calls him. Immediately, all audio is replaced by
a loud 'bip b b bip b b bip b b bip brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbbrbr'
noise. (If you have a GSM phone and have ever had it near a radio
receiver, you'll be familiar with this noise).

I was monitoring the approach, and didn't notice any disturbance to the
loc or gs indications - merely an extremely loud and distracting sound
in the headset. I took the controls while he found the phone and shut it
off.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

Steve,

"In one telling incident, a flight crew stated that a 30-degree navigation
error was immediately corrected after a passenger turned off a DVD player
and that the error reoccurred when the curious crew asked the passenger to
switch the player on again. Game electronics and laptops were the culprits
in other reports in which the crew verified in the same way that a
particular PED caused erratic navigation indications."


The word for that is "anecdotal evidence".

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Doug,

It seems to be enough of a problem that I think the airlines have it
right.


Does it? The report says there are cell phones on regularly during
take-off and landing. And that has done what to the accident numbers?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Gig,

Well, this:

And despite the ban on cell phone use during flights, the researchers
discovered that on average one to four cell phone calls are made from
every
commercial flight in the northeast United States.

Some are even made during critical flight times, such as the climb after
takeoff or the final approach.

kind of contradicts this, doesn't it?

However, the CMU study concluded otherwise. While the researchers looked
primarily at cell phone use, they also discovered that emissions from
other
portable devices proved "problematic."

"We found that the risk posed by these portable devices is higher than
previously believed," researcher Bill Strauss said in a release
announcing
the findings.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)


I'm neither a supporter or detractor of the study but I don't see how those
two statements in any way contradict each other. They are barely related.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in message
...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06060/662669.stm

In addition to the cell phones issue the study says...

QUOTE
Airlines typically allow the use of portable electronic devices, like game
players and DVDs, above 10,000 feet, but not during takeoff or landing.
Laptops also can be used, but not for communications purposes, such as
sending or receiving e-mail.

In the past, the FAA has found nothing to indicate that the use of passive
devices like laptops or game-playing electronics poses a threat to the
aircraft.

However, the CMU study concluded otherwise. While the researchers looked
primarily at cell phone use, they also discovered that emissions from
other portable devices proved "problematic."

"We found that the risk posed by these portable devices is higher than
previously believed," researcher Bill Strauss said in a release announcing
the findings.

/QUOTE

I also liked this little tidbit...

QUOTE

And despite the ban on cell phone use during flights, the researchers
discovered that on average one to four cell phone calls are made from
every commercial flight in the northeast United States.

Some are even made during critical flight times, such as the climb after
takeoff or the final approach.

/QUOTE

I don't know about interference in airliners but I do know they can
interfere in GA. I was flying a Cessna 182 with Stec autopilot on altitude
hold when my pocket buzzed and the airplane pitched down hard for a couple
seconds. My cell phone (which I had forgotten to turn off) rang twice
before I hit the disconnect button, the airplane pitched down both times.

My cell phone is sitting on my desk by my computer speakers, each time it
rings the speakers buzz loudly. There is certainly enough output to affect
close-by avionics.

Allen

Gig,

I'm neither a supporter or detractor of the study but I don't see how those
two statements in any way contradict each other. They are barely related.


Let me explain: If "on average one to four cell phone calls are made from
every commercial flight in the northeast United States" and "We found that the
risk posed by these portable devices is higher than previously believed" both
are true, then the incidents/accidents should show this in an obvious way -
unless even the "higher than previously believed" risk is still really small.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Skywise wrote in
:

Judah wrote in
:

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in
:


I also liked this little tidbit...

QUOTE

And despite the ban on cell phone use during flights, the
researchers discovered that on average one to four cell phone calls
are made from every commercial flight in the northeast United
States.

Some are even made during critical flight times, such as the climb
after takeoff or the final approach.

/QUOTE


The latter quote is most interesting because I've never had or heard
of a cell phone that even worked above about 3000'AGL...

You may not be able to _use_ the cell phone to make a call, but when
it is on, it is still transmitting in an attempt to connect to a
cell.
It's those transmissions that would be causing the interference.

Brian

That's assuming that they really do interfere. I've forgotten to turn
my phone off plenty of times while fying, and I have a Motorola Nextel
phone which interferes with everything (it sets speakers off in
doctor's offices). Yet it doesn't seem to interfere with the Century
2000 or CNX80 in the planes I fly when left on my hip at a max distance
of maybe 3' from the electronics or the antennas...

Maybe I'm just a skeptic....