Blue Angels Question(s)

"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:C048B3AD.6AC96%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:
My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems
to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on
Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Formation that tight isn't done by an engine setting per se. It's done by
relative motion. For example, lead always "gives up" a few % in RPM as his
full throttle position to give some play percentage wise to the lowest power
setting in the formation. There's always a few RPM for the slot and 2 wings
to use if they need it.
As to holding position, it's done by relative motion on a single position ,
usually lead in the Diamond. Lead sets the power and everybody does whatever
it takes to hold position. There is a set line of sight for each position
called a "paint" that coincides with a direct position line to that spot on
another aircraft. Power is adjusted to maintain that paint. No attention is
paid to what percent RPM is required to do that. It could very well vary
from position to position. The only thing that's important is that lead is
off the throttle enough that the slowest plane (RPM wise) in the formation,
has the excess power spread to hold the position.
There's a WHOLE lot going on with all this that the public never sees or
hears. Flying a 20 minute show for these guys is just about the same
physical effort as playing an entire football game as a pro...BOTH ways!
And this doesn't even get into the mental strain!
Dudley Henriques

Dudley,

I thought your comments about formation flying were very interesting. Please
tell us more!

Jon

"Jon Woellhaf" wrote in message
. ..
Dudley,

I thought your comments about formation flying were very interesting.
Please tell us more!

Jon

Thank you very much for the kind comment.
Formation flying is a whole new world of information. If it's ok, I'd rather
simply answer a few specific questions when I can then ramble on aimlessly
about such a complicated issue :-))
Dudley Henriques

On 3/23/06 8:43 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:C048B3AD.6AC96%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:
My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems
to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on
Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Formation that tight isn't done by an engine setting per se. It's done by
relative motion. For example, lead always "gives up" a few % in RPM as his
full throttle position to give some play percentage wise to the lowest power
setting in the formation. There's always a few RPM for the slot and 2 wings
to use if they need it.
As to holding position, it's done by relative motion on a single position ,
usually lead in the Diamond. Lead sets the power and everybody does whatever
it takes to hold position. There is a set line of sight for each position
called a "paint" that coincides with a direct position line to that spot on
another aircraft. Power is adjusted to maintain that paint. No attention is
paid to what percent RPM is required to do that. It could very well vary
from position to position. The only thing that's important is that lead is
off the throttle enough that the slowest plane (RPM wise) in the formation,
has the excess power spread to hold the position.
There's a WHOLE lot going on with all this that the public never sees or
hears. Flying a 20 minute show for these guys is just about the same
physical effort as playing an entire football game as a pro...BOTH ways!
And this doesn't even get into the mental strain!
Dudley Henriques


I appreciate your time sir. As a follow up, can I assume that there is no
"fine adjustment knob" to the throttle, and that the ease of movement with
respect to the throttle lever can be set to the pilot's preference?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Generally, you turn your left hand into a micrometer tool by solidly
planting the outside of your palm on the throttle base and using that as a
fulcrum to make extremely small adjustments in power setting. You don't want
to be jockeying around with the power all that much anyway. It's all very
subtle and gently done. Your eyes hardly ever go to the tach. As pilots
become accustomed to a position, it's possible to actually check instruments
and hold position peripherally when going inverted through the float at the
top of a loop for example. This is especially true for the slot.
Dudley Henriques

"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:C048C595.6B308%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 3/23/06 8:43 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:C048B3AD.6AC96%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:
My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It
seems
to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines,
requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on
Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Formation that tight isn't done by an engine setting per se. It's done by
relative motion. For example, lead always "gives up" a few % in RPM as
his
full throttle position to give some play percentage wise to the lowest
power
setting in the formation. There's always a few RPM for the slot and 2
wings
to use if they need it.
As to holding position, it's done by relative motion on a single position
,
usually lead in the Diamond. Lead sets the power and everybody does
whatever
it takes to hold position. There is a set line of sight for each position
called a "paint" that coincides with a direct position line to that spot
on
another aircraft. Power is adjusted to maintain that paint. No attention
is
paid to what percent RPM is required to do that. It could very well vary
from position to position. The only thing that's important is that lead
is
off the throttle enough that the slowest plane (RPM wise) in the
formation,
has the excess power spread to hold the position.
There's a WHOLE lot going on with all this that the public never sees or
hears. Flying a 20 minute show for these guys is just about the same
physical effort as playing an entire football game as a pro...BOTH ways!
And this doesn't even get into the mental strain!
Dudley Henriques


I appreciate your time sir. As a follow up, can I assume that there is no
"fine adjustment knob" to the throttle, and that the ease of movement with
respect to the throttle lever can be set to the pilot's preference?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

In article m,
Wizard of Draws wrote:

On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

Yes, they do "bump" once in a while in the formation. There have been
numerous sheet metal "benders" through the years. Naturally, these are
wingtip hits laterally rather than nose hits :-) I remember one of these
occasions quite vividly during the 73 season.
The flow patterns in the diamond are unique to close proximity similar
aircraft. I say similar because in a close Diamond of dis-similar aircraft,
the flow patterns would not be as predictable.
Tip vortices on the left and right wing positions in close tend to cause a
roll away from the opposite aircraft and have to be countered. You can
really feel this as you get in close.
Lead and the slot position have their trim affected as the slot sticks his
nose in where it should be. Lead can actually "feel" the slot in position
and knows by his trim change if the slot slides out too far. The trim change
is nose down for the lead and nose up for the slot, again caused by the flow
patterns.
It's not nearly as smooth in the Diamond as it looks to you from the ground.
There is a lot of movement going on in the formation, especially through
rough air. It takes intense concentration to hold position.
On the cross over question. They use pre-selected hack and checkpoints
briefed by photo recon before the show as well as radio calls when visual.
Timing on the high show bomb burst is a hack call down from lead to the
split S pull on his cadence. There is a visual call by each opposing
aircraft (lead/slot) (left/right wings) and adjustments made during the
downside recovery for altitude and airspeed to seek co-cross at show center.
Naturally, both sides of the runway are used. It saves a hell of a lot of
sheet metal work after the show :-)
Hope this helps a bit.
Dudley Henriques


My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?

In tight formation you don't even LOOK inside the cockpit! you have
reference points on the other aircraft that you keep in line and make
adjustments with throttle -- very often macro adjustments, rather than
micro. All flights are flow according to the briefing -- and -- all
flights are debriefed ASAP.

Get hold of the T-34 Association's formation manual to help get up to
speed.

"three-eight-hotel" wrote in message
ups.com...
[...]
I heard that in some of the tight formation flying, they get as close
as 18 inches to each other. If this is true, and I have no reason to
believe it isn't, I have to wonder if they ever bump into one another?
If they were to bump into one another, would that be catastrophic, or
would they merely make contact and separate back into position? They
are all flying in the same direction, and at the same speed, so it's
conceivable that contact could be farily incidental.

A slight bump may just ding up the paint a little. Harder bumps may damage
something without affecting flight characteristics. Of course, really bad
bumps can kill all pilots involved.

The fact is, bumps do happen but very occasionally. In spite of the close
quarters, the pilots are VERY good at what they do, and even when they are
18 inches apart, practically never touch each other. If they do, it's
almost never more than a glancing blow.

Another question I had was regarding two Angels flying in opposite
directions and crossing by each other at a combined speed of 800 mph.
Do they have equipment on board that gives them precise situational
awareness, or do they use ground references?

All of their maneuvers are done by outside visual reference, either to a
ground reference or to the formation.

Of course, in the case of head-on passes, they fly the airplanes quite a bit
farther from each other than it appears to be on the ground. As you note,
in addition to being separated laterally, it takes a great deal of skill and
planning to arrive at show center at precisely the same time. IMHO, that
part is probably harder than keeping the airplanes from hitting each other.

Pete

Thanks guys, for the responses! A couple of those nagging questions,
I've always wanted to ask...

I'm not a photographer, nor do I play one on T.V., but I did take a few
pictures, a couple of which I have made available... I've seen much
better, taken by much higher quality equipment, but for a point and
click camera I'm happy with what I've got.

http://thepetersonranch.com/angels.php

Take a look at the second picture, which prompted one of my questions.
I got completely lucky on the timing of the picture, but I was amazed
at how close the planes appear to be, and further more, how well they
are lined up! The last one shows a pretty tight formation (I don't
know about 18 inches, but tighter than I would feel comfortable with!
;-)

Best Regards,
Todd

"three-eight-hotel" wrote in message
ups.com...
[...]
Take a look at the second picture, which prompted one of my questions.
I got completely lucky on the timing of the picture, but I was amazed
at how close the planes appear to be [...]

The airplanes are very close.

That said, some optical illusions help with the drama. At a distance,
everything essentially looks 2D. A camera's zoom lens emphasizes this.
Your eye, or the camera's, is not able to differentiate between two objects
18 inches apart versus 18 feet apart versus (at far enough away, say a half
mile or so) 180 feet, as long as those distances are along your line of
sight (obviously you can do better with lateral distances). There's just no
depth perception, and not enough perspective to tell the difference.

This is especially a significant effect for the head-on fly-bys. In
formation, the airplanes really are that close, but when flying head-on they
don't need to be all that close for the viewer to still perceive them as
being very close.

Pete