Minimum fuel

Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
Jose wrote:


If you really are committed to breaking a rule, I'd rather take on an
extra 30 minutes of fuel and take off overgross.

Those are different kinds of rules. Breaking a personal minimum should
be treated differently from breaking an FAR.

Jose


Would you rather be legal and dangerous or illegal and safe? Your choice.

What is wrong with legal and safe?

Matt

In article , says...
Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
Jose wrote:


If you really are committed to breaking a rule, I'd rather take on an
extra 30 minutes of fuel and take off overgross.

Those are different kinds of rules. Breaking a personal minimum should
be treated differently from breaking an FAR.

Jose


Would you rather be legal and dangerous or illegal and safe? Your choice.

What is wrong with legal and safe?

Which he was right? He landed w' about 45 mins of fuel left IIRC (15
mins into *his* 1 hour safety fuel margin). And within (or right on)
the legal fuel reserve.

I'd have done exactly what he did.

--
Duncan

In article ,
says...
In article ,
Jose wrote:

If you really are committed to breaking a rule, I'd rather take on an
extra 30 minutes of fuel and take off overgross.

Those are different kinds of rules. Breaking a personal minimum should
be treated differently from breaking an FAR.

Jose

Would you rather be legal and dangerous or illegal and safe? Your choice.

Now wot kinda question is that? If yer overweight, are you safe?
(Guess you're saying, "yes").

--
Duncan

Boy Denny, I hear ya!
I also never go into the last hour's worth of fuel and the only time I've
actually gotten below that was a non stop trip from Atlanta back to
Wisconsin into some pretty heavy head winds. We were in the air for 5
hours.

I normally plan our fuel burn at 25gph by my watch, start up to shut down.
I stopped 20 minutes from home and pumped 120 gallons into the Aztec, 24gph,
but it only left 6 gallons in each of the four tanks, 24 total, only 20 of
which was usable. Just under 50 minutes of fuel in a perfect world. My
hands were still sweating and my knees were weak as I climbed back in the
plane. I think the last 30 minutes of that flight took a larger toll on me
than the first 4 and 1/2 hours.

Jim

"Denny" wrote in message
oups.com...
Just a comment... Last weekend I had to move a full load, five seats
and baggage, across three states with multiple stops... This required
a light fuel load to make the W&B work out...

For those who have not seen my postings on fuel before, I am a fanatic
about not ever going into the last hour of fuel, for any reason... I
have even, in the distant past, landed 20 minutes from home for gas to
avoid busting my own one hour minimum rule... Given that the current
bird holds six hours of fuel and my bladder range is four hours, it has
been many years since I had less than two hours in the tanks...

Anyway, this time the significant other was breathing down my neck
about completing the flights on a fixed schedule... After beating up
on my whiz wheel for 20 minutes it became clear I would have to suspend
the fuel rule for the first time in decades, and go 15 minutes into the
fuel reserve because there 'aint no' gas station in the middle of Lake
Erie... I measure fuel by the clock and use the fuel gauges only as a
'how goes it' indicator, though I know from experience the gauge on the
main tank is on the money... So, there we are going across Lake Erie
on a gorgeous sunny day as the needle just touches the 1/4 mark which
means exactly 60 minutes of fuel left.. The count down timer I normally
use for approaches agrees with the gauge...

What didn't agree was my pucker factor... Amazing what your nervous
system can do when it wants your attention... In spite of my
intellectual knowledge that I had 15 minutes until landing with 60
minutes of fuel on board, my parasympathetic nervous system threw a
tantrum... I got a hollow in the pit of my stomach.. My palms got
sweaty... I had that, 'something bad is going to happen' sensation...
OTOH, the engines continued to do the Lycoming four banger, shake,
rattle, and roll... They weren't nervous... And the flight ended with
the usual squeak of tires on the concrete at Port Clinton...

So what is the point of this post? Well not much, except rules can be
broken ( NASA just did) if done carefully, but it still feels bad...
It will be a long time before I break the 1 hour rule again,
significant other not withstanding...

denny

In article .com,
"Denny" wrote:

In spite of my
intellectual knowledge that I had 15 minutes until landing with 60
minutes of fuel on board, my parasympathetic nervous system threw a
tantrum... I got a hollow in the pit of my stomach.. My palms got
sweaty... I had that, 'something bad is going to happen' sensation...
OTOH, the engines continued to do the Lycoming four banger, shake,
rattle, and roll...

Not nearly as bad as getting distracted looking for traffic, being
vectored by ATC, missing the normal tank change point in the checklist
and hearing the engine surge at 2500 AGL three miles from the threshhold
with an hours worth of fuel in another tank!

On 5 Jul 2006 07:38:28 -0700, "Denny" wrote in
.com::

It will be a long time before I break the 1 hour rule again,
significant other not withstanding...

Your 1 hour fuel rule is admirable.

I have found it takes enormous courage to resist the influence of
social pressure when making prudent flight decisions, but rest
assured, your passengers are counting on you to do exactly that
despite their protestations. (Too bad JFK Jr. hadn't learned that.)

What's the water temperature in Lake Erie this time of year? :-(

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On 5 Jul 2006 07:38:28 -0700, "Denny" wrote in
...
What's the water temperature in Lake Erie this time of year? :-(


Surface temperature is about 70 degrees F...

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
news:JOGdneSVwODlZTbZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
What's the water temperature in Lake Erie this time of year? :-(

Surface temperature is about 70 degrees F...

Wow. When I read that I was skeptical. But, not only are you correct
(duh), you were even being a bit conservative:

http://www.wbuf.noaa.gov/laketemps/laketemps.htm

Even 30 feet below the surface, the measured temperature is 73F. On the
surface, it may be quite a bit warmer than that.

Looking here (the minimum temperatures over the last 80 years):
http://www.wbuf.noaa.gov/laketemps/COLD_LE.htm

I am amazed at the variation in temperature of the lake during the year, and
just how warm the *lowest* temperatures on record are during the summer.
I'm so used to our snow-melt-fed lakes here in the Puget Sound area that I
forgot many inland lakes can get quite warm during the summer (for example,
at that same depth of 30 feet, Lake Sammamish varies only within a range of
about 15F throughout the year, peaking about about 60-65F...even at the very
surface, it rarely gets as high as 70F, and even then only briefly right
near the end of the summer).

The water at the Lake Erie beaches must feel like bathwater! (in the
summer, I mean)

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote:
http://www.wbuf.noaa.gov/laketemps/COLD_LE.htm


The water at the Lake Erie beaches must feel like bathwater! (in the
summer, I mean)

Surfers wear wetsuits in 70 deg. water. It's cold enough to produce
hypothermia in 6-12 hours of exposure.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Lake Erie depth charts

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/greatla.../e_gmorph.htm#
a789