Arlington lays some eggs

wrote in message
ups.com...
Volunteers that are there for setup and/or teardown should get a
camping spot for free. If he was there during that time, he was given
wrong information. He should contact NWEAA for a full explination.

Being a volunteer doesn't mean you get a complete free ride. I've been
going there for years. Even though I can now get in for free, I still
pay for the days I'm there. If everyone got freebies, then where will
the money come from to put on the show?

If there is a shortage of volunteers at any event, then laws of supply and
demand dictate that changes need to be made. When camping requires very
little monetary output by the show organizers, they would be out very little
money by letting the volunteer work a stated number of hours and camp for
free for a day.

They could still pay to get in. It would not be hard to have a ticket given
to a volunteer for working X number of hours, then given to the camping
attendant for N number of free days camping for those hours worked, and
those days free camping refunded.

Some thoughts on the signage. Many places have permanent road signs that
fold in half, and are opened up for the event. Perhaps that could be used
for the sign problem. Also, signs with a picture of an airplane on them and
an arrow showing which way to turn are a common thing in most communities.
It sounds like more are needed. If there were a signpost, it would be a
simple thing to bring out another sign to bolt onto the signpost with the
extra information, such as camping, or general admission parking.
--
Jim in NC

Jim,

When I worked the Wings Over Houston show in 2003, I noticed that they
had a very effective portable signage system. This consisted of a
series of folding "sandwich-board" type signs made from 1/2-sheets of
plywood, OSB, etc. hinged at the top, with a short section of rope
attached to the backs to keep the signs from spreading open too far.
Both sides of the sign were painted white. In foot-tall black letters,
the front of the sign simply said AIR SHOW. Under this was a large
plywood arrow painted day-glo orange. It was bolted to the sign at its
center so that the arrow could be pointed in the proper direction by
the sign crew no matter where the sign was placed. Simple and to the
point. Of course, there were a few other more specific signs like AIR
SHOW VENDORS, PARKING, GATES / TICKETS, EXIT, etc.

This type of sign could be made by a troup of Boy Scouts for under $15
each and would probably last a few seasons. And since they are fairly
small, they could be placed on the side of the road at critical
intersections on the days of the event, and then quickly removed,
provided the county sign Nazis would grant a waiver for the event days.

Just a thought.

Harry

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 wrote:

Volunteers that are there for setup and/or teardown should get a camping
spot for free. If he was there during that time, he was given wrong
information. He should contact NWEAA for a full explination.

He was there 2 days before the show started -- obviously not just trying
to get a freebie -- and intended to work from then until the end of the
show. He was asked to pay $10/day to camp starting from the moment he
arrived, and told only those who had helped the previous year (not _a_
previous year, like he has) could camp for free. He did verify the info
he was given.

If everyone got freebies, then where will the money come from to put
on the show?

I don't know, but it shouldn't come from those who are donating their time
to make the show possible. As someone else noted, that's really going to
cut down on your volunteer pool. I'm sure my friend isn't the only one
who doesn't like it, and no doubt you never hear about most of them.

-Dan

Dan Youngquist wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 wrote:

Volunteers that are there for setup and/or teardown should get a
camping spot for free. If he was there during that time, he was given
wrong information. He should contact NWEAA for a full explination.


He was there 2 days before the show started -- obviously not just trying
to get a freebie -- and intended to work from then until the end of the
show. He was asked to pay $10/day to camp starting from the moment he
arrived, and told only those who had helped the previous year (not _a_
previous year, like he has) could camp for free. He did verify the info
he was given.

If everyone got freebies, then where will the money come from to put
on the show?


I don't know, but it shouldn't come from those who are donating their
time to make the show possible. As someone else noted, that's really
going to cut down on your volunteer pool. I'm sure my friend isn't the
only one who doesn't like it, and no doubt you never hear about most of
them.

-Dan

Following your logic I spend a lot of money flying my experimental
aircraft to the show so that others can come and see it. Seems like that
I should get in for free also :-) NOT!!!


Jerry

wrote in message
oups.com...
You are more than welcome to come volunteer and help out in the setup,
running and teardown of the Fly-In. The only way this even happens is
buy the good graces of 300 volunteers. People who give up free time to
hopefully make your weekend fun and pleasurable.

I volunteer at several fly-ins already, Arlington would be a little
problematical for me, but I'll see what I can do. I will be donating to the
new building, FWIW. Your volunteer efforts are much appreciated.


1. Your comments on the signs will be sure to be forwarded to the
appropriate organizers. They should have been by the freeway. That
being said, in the 12 months between events, holes have a tendancy to
get filled or destroyed by road work. Property owners change and
suddenly we can't use a spot we've used for years. I've done sign
setup, it's not an easy task to get every single one put up.


I do sign setup as well (and have a sign making business). Since the Fly-In
folks are on such good terms (I think?) with the City of Arlington, maybe
the city could provide permanent sign locations/tiedowns. Maybe the city
would even be willing to store and put up the signs. Can't hurt to ask.


2. No comment, I never made it to the parking lot this year.

3. I'd suggest directing your comments to the Warbirds. No other EAA
division gets money to attend a Fly-In, why should they? If they want
to buy a million dollar airplane, they should be able to afford the
gas. Otherwise you, the attendee, will end up footing that fuel bill.
The organizers are trying their best to fill in that particular gap.

I see both sides of the issue, and I may kick myself for suggesting this,
but the cost of admission could be raised. I burned about $36 worth of gas
to drive in, and an extra $1 per ticket, if it would help with the Warbirds
and the airshow, wouldn't hurt that much.


4. People come and go all the time during the Fly-In, constantly
changing what the overall parking aisles look like. When a group comes
and goes together, that will often leave gaps in the parking areas. We
try to fill those as quickly as possible. Or perhaps they were in the
flyby pattern? I know when all the amphibians went up it made that one
row look very empty. And they were gone for a while over to Lake
Goodwin for the Splash In.


I think the lack of the CAP hurt here. If they were there, they could have
help move the planes around.

5. Ah... the CAP kids. I suggest talking to the Canadian Air Cadets
legal department. They made a determination that the cadets should not
be around spinning propellers. Brilliant, eh? Well we did have some
Boy Scouts this year to help fill the gap, but yes, there were not
enough kids to help out. The CAP needs to grow their membership in
order to fill that gap left by the Air Cadets. We are also open to
suggestions to other youth groups that show a level of responsibility
and can help out.

I plan on joining CAP this year. Another poster mentioned aviation programs
at colleges (good idea) and I'll mention Seattle's aviation high school.
I'll be writing a letter to the Canadian consulate and Mr. Harper as well.


6. Who did you ask for information? (As in which department, not
which person) Where did we have a break in communication?

Again, I think this was a "lack of CAP" problem. The volunteers on "the
promenade" were the ones people were asking and who didn't know.


7. I thought, foot traffic was up. But last year I was in a totally
different area. So until I see gate numbers, I really can't say.

8. That's the trouble with those tents and the reason for the new
building you mention later.

9. Thanks.

10. Good comments, and they will be forwarded.

snip

Another poster mentioned the forum schedule signs, excellent point. The
display board is already there, making the sign as big as the board, putting
them on both sides, and probably limiting the info to that day's forums only
would be a big improvement.

Again, if you have time, volunteer. That is the ONLY why this Fly-In
happens. Offer up your ideas to the organizers, not just in forums
like this.


I kind of figured if I posted them here, they would make their way back to
the organizers! ;^)

Ken Finney wrote:
I do sign setup as well (and have a sign making business). Since the Fly-In
folks are on such good terms (I think?) with the City of Arlington, maybe
the city could provide permanent sign locations/tiedowns. Maybe the city
would even be willing to store and put up the signs. Can't hurt to ask.


Storage isn't an issue. And lack of freeway signs is a dropped ball on
NWEAA's part. It's just a matter of life that causes some holes to
disappear. Construction is a big part of it.


I see both sides of the issue, and I may kick myself for suggesting this,
but the cost of admission could be raised. I burned about $36 worth of gas
to drive in, and an extra $1 per ticket, if it would help with the Warbirds
and the airshow, wouldn't hurt that much.


It's also a matter of principle. The last requested amoutn of money I
heard about had seven figures in it. Come on, that's just stupid. They
already get free gas, which no one else gets besides the performers.
They would be paid hundreds of times more than the airshow performers
if they got that kind of money just to show up! They need a goddamned
reality check. We had T-6's, CJ-6 Nachangs, Alpha Jets, Donier Do-27,
and a Yak-52 in the Warbird area. There was a F-8 Crusader on the
ramp. On Saturday we had the Storch and P-47 doing flybys. The only
thing that was missing was an Avenger and a gaggle of Navions, maybe a
P-51. It was their idea and choice to create the "AWO Atoll" with
rented palm trees (!), now they want someone else to foot the bill?
Get real.


I think the lack of the CAP hurt here. If they were there, they could have
help move the planes around.


Once they're parked, they try not to move them. However, parking in
and of itself isn't smooth. The parking guys rely on pilots to tell
them where they want to go, if the pilot doesn't do a little research,
then they end up in the wrong place. Now this is something that could
be shown better on the NWEAA website and I'll send up that suggestion.
But for those folks that want to park together, I suggest taking
ownership of a row. Appoint a lead person, contact NWEAA long prior to
the show requesting a parking area, inform all your pilots to request
that area upon arrival

Hopefully the changes that are coming to the grounds will bring parking
back in closer to the exhibits.


I plan on joining CAP this year. Another poster mentioned aviation programs
at colleges (good idea) and I'll mention Seattle's aviation high school.
I'll be writing a letter to the Canadian consulate and Mr. Harper as well.


Excellent!


Again, I think this was a "lack of CAP" problem. The volunteers on "the
promenade" were the ones people were asking and who didn't know.


Thanks.


Another poster mentioned the forum schedule signs, excellent point. The
display board is already there, making the sign as big as the board, putting
them on both sides, and probably limiting the info to that day's forums only
would be a big improvement.


Good points.


I kind of figured if I posted them here, they would make their way back to
the organizers! ;^)

Well, it would be best to contact them directly. A simple letter would
suffice and be appreciated.

Again, I think this was a "lack of CAP" problem. The volunteers on "the
promenade" were the ones people were asking and who didn't know.


Thanks.


Whoops, didn't finish my thought... Thanks for the info, obviously
since they are a public point of contact they need to get information
better. Something NWEAA should consider.

This year makes, my 5th or 6th continuous year attending
Arlington. It is my first that I've been there without my kids
(they're off visting Grandma in Michigan), but the only with my
older, non-pilot brother.

As usual, we arrived as early Friday as we could and left early
Sunday morning. I always camp at Arlington as it wouldn't feel right
otherwise.

I didn't see anything new this year that I would say that I objected
to. One constant gripe I always have have (but never have gotten
around to voicing) is that the posted forum schedules are unreadable
from 2 feet away. Why can't they be printed just a bit bigger so you
can see them without elbowing everybody away.

I also have never quite understand their plane parking scheme. Due
to when we came in we ended up being parked a fair way out. I
understand that and its ok. However, there were people who showed up
late Saturday and they still got parked way out, despite there being
ample spots available closer in.

For the first time since going it looks like the fuel provider got
their act togather. You could schedule ahead your fuel purchase and
they actually showed up when they were supposed to. In the past,
they would get you when they could, but you never knew how long that
was going to be.

Another nice thing that hasn't always happened is that the ballon
guys got to fly every morning. In years past weather (I assume) kept
them away. Nothing quite like rolling out from under the wing of the
plane and saying good morning to a couple of guys 30 feet over your
head.


As a contrast, I had attended the Golden West Fly-in in Marysville,
CA a few weeks back. I much prefer Arlington. Much friendlier.
Better organized (IMHO).

Oh wait, there is something that ticked me off about Arlington this
year. We arrived on Friday just as the clouds were breaking up.
Lots of planes over Green Valley. WAS I THE ONLY ONE WHO READ THE
@#$^& NOTAM!?! I was simply amazed at the bozos ahead and behind me
that kept yammering on the radio. I had a (I think) BD-4 come by
(close) against the traffic between Green Valley and the city of
Arlington. Talk to one guy on the ground while he was packing up on
Saturday at about 1:30 PM. Reminded him that the field was closing
at 2:00 for the airshow. "What? Why don't they tell us that!"
When I told him that it was in the NOTAM, he admitted that he had
never seen it. "Couldn't find it on the computer".

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

("Frank Stutzman" wrote)
When I told him that it was in the NOTAM, he admitted that he had never
seen it. "Couldn't find it on the computer".


#1 Hit) Google: Arlington 2006 + NOTAM
http://www.nweaa.org/flying.cfm
In pdf.

#4 Hit) Google: Arlington 2006 + NOTAM
http://www.faa.gov/ntap/NTAP06JUN08/as06006.htm
HTML

Geez!


Montblack

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 06:40:08 +0000 (UTC), Frank Stutzman
wrote:

sinp

Oh wait, there is something that ticked me off about Arlington this
year. We arrived on Friday just as the clouds were breaking up.
Lots of planes over Green Valley. WAS I THE ONLY ONE WHO READ THE
@#$^& NOTAM!?! I was simply amazed at the bozos ahead and behind me
that kept yammering on the radio. I had a (I think) BD-4 come by
(close) against the traffic between Green Valley and the city of
Arlington. Talk to one guy on the ground while he was packing up on
Saturday at about 1:30 PM. Reminded him that the field was closing
at 2:00 for the airshow. "What? Why don't they tell us that!"
When I told him that it was in the NOTAM, he admitted that he had
never seen it. "Couldn't find it on the computer".

We were thinking the same thing. The NOTAM clearly states (I'm
paraphrasing here) to KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT AND LISTEN.
Drive your airplane to where the NOTAM tells you to drive it (Green
Valley), watch for other aircraft and LISTEN for instructions. I flew
up twice (Friday and then Saturday) and didn't have to say a word to
anyone either day....

I swear 9 out of ten gomers out there were calling "Arlington
Approach" with their aircraft type & full N numbers blabbing on about
where they were and asking for instructions on how to get to the show.
A couple of years ago, we heard a gal call "Arlington Approach" 25
miles south asking for instructions....

As far as the fly-in goes, the organizers and the warbird guys need
to figure things out and quit fighting over money. On the one hand,
if you can afford to own and fly a million dollar Mustang or Corsair
or whatever, you can afford to fill the tanks with your own money. I
understand some warbird guys will often decline free fuel in an
attempt to "help out" the organizers of fun-to-attend events. The
other side of that coin is if you want rare, crowd-pleasing and/or
desirable warbirds to show up to your event, you just might have to
dig into your pockets a bit to make it happen.

Also, I think a lot of the vendors might be struggling with shlepping
their schtuff all the way to the west coast only to have to pack it
all up and head for Oshkosh shortly after Arlington is over.

My personal observation is that I'm not having as much "fun" there as
I have had in years past, but it still made for an enjoyable weekend.
Nice weather always helps! Last year we got there OK but had
to put down in Renton on the way home and sit there for several
hours waiting for a break in the weather...

Bela P. Havasreti

PS: The field closed @ 3:00pm on Saturday for the airshow