Stupid Question

Crash Lander wrote:
I'm surprised. I never knew how it all worked. That leaves the whole
'minimum number of hours required' thing a bit open to fudging doesn't it?
Crash Lander

Possibly, but as others have pointed out, it's hard for someone to
significantly falsify their log book and not get caught eventually - if
those hours are actually used as a basis for something. For example, a
pilot with a few hundred hours in a little Cessna 172 could claim
thousands of hours in MD-80's and A340's - but as soon as he applied
for a job and went into the simulator... well, you get the idea.

So it does happen (pilots used to talk about logging "P-51" time; the
P-51 Mustang being a piston fighter everyone wanted to fly, but in
reality referring to only having access to the "Parker P-51" fountain
pen to write the entry in the log book G). Rarely does it happen
such that you actually wind up with a truly unqualified pilot at the
controls of an aircraft because he fudged the hours.

NOW - as to the hours and types of aircraft a pilot may CLAIM to have
flown, when he's at the bar and trying to pick up the sweet young thing
on the stool next to him... Well, that's another matter entirely!
{:) [These tales traditionally start with the words, "There I
was..."]

LOL! Must remember that! "There I was...!" right after I check that the wife
isn't around! LOL!
Crash Lander

"jmk" wrote in message
oups.com...

Crash Lander wrote:
I'm surprised. I never knew how it all worked. That leaves the whole
'minimum number of hours required' thing a bit open to fudging doesn't
it?
Crash Lander

Possibly, but as others have pointed out, it's hard for someone to
significantly falsify their log book and not get caught eventually - if
those hours are actually used as a basis for something. For example, a
pilot with a few hundred hours in a little Cessna 172 could claim
thousands of hours in MD-80's and A340's - but as soon as he applied
for a job and went into the simulator... well, you get the idea.

So it does happen (pilots used to talk about logging "P-51" time; the
P-51 Mustang being a piston fighter everyone wanted to fly, but in
reality referring to only having access to the "Parker P-51" fountain
pen to write the entry in the log book G). Rarely does it happen
such that you actually wind up with a truly unqualified pilot at the
controls of an aircraft because he fudged the hours.

NOW - as to the hours and types of aircraft a pilot may CLAIM to have
flown, when he's at the bar and trying to pick up the sweet young thing
on the stool next to him... Well, that's another matter entirely!
{:) [These tales traditionally start with the words, "There I
was..."]

The ratios of time in type and conditions often catch the
liars.

Those bar room tales often start with, " I used to fly for
the CIA, I'd tell you more about it, but then I'd have to
kill you."


One thing you'll likely never see in a pilot's logbook...
Jan3,2009 CE208B stolen at SAT round trip to Mexicalli,
2000 pounds dope, 5 hours X-C 3 hours IMC, no flight plan,
N12345xxx , unless the pilot is really stupid and wants the
turbine for an airline job.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P


"jmk" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Crash Lander wrote:
| I'm surprised. I never knew how it all worked. That
leaves the whole
| 'minimum number of hours required' thing a bit open to
fudging doesn't it?
| Crash Lander
|
| Possibly, but as others have pointed out, it's hard for
someone to
| significantly falsify their log book and not get caught
eventually - if
| those hours are actually used as a basis for something.
For example, a
| pilot with a few hundred hours in a little Cessna 172
could claim
| thousands of hours in MD-80's and A340's - but as soon as
he applied
| for a job and went into the simulator... well, you get the
idea.
|
| So it does happen (pilots used to talk about logging
"P-51" time; the
| P-51 Mustang being a piston fighter everyone wanted to
fly, but in
| reality referring to only having access to the "Parker
P-51" fountain
| pen to write the entry in the log book G). Rarely does
it happen
| such that you actually wind up with a truly unqualified
pilot at the
| controls of an aircraft because he fudged the hours.
|
| NOW - as to the hours and types of aircraft a pilot may
CLAIM to have
| flown, when he's at the bar and trying to pick up the
sweet young thing
| on the stool next to him... Well, that's another matter
entirely!
| {:) [These tales traditionally start with the words,
"There I
| was..."]
|

jmk wrote:
snip

NOW - as to the hours and types of aircraft a pilot may CLAIM to have
flown, when he's at the bar and trying to pick up the sweet young thing
on the stool next to him... Well, that's another matter entirely!
{:) [These tales traditionally start with the words, "There I
was..."]

Hehehehe...I met a guy at the airport bar once who claimed he flew 737's
for American and was laying it on pretty thick. It was pretty funny,
and pretty obvious to me that he was faking it...especially when he
flashed his "jet license" at me. Not sure what the back said, but the
front definitely said "private pilot"! I said how impressed I was, then
opened my purse and started fiddling with my four certificates. lol He
backed off pretty quick after that.

Its just like your taxes. The feds ask you for your times every once in
awhile (like during your medical) and you have to sign that the facts
are correct.

-Robert


Crash Lander wrote:
I'm surprised. I never knew how it all worked. That leaves the whole
'minimum number of hours required' thing a bit open to fudging doesn't it?
Crash Lander

"Jose" wrote in message
m...
When pilots quote how many hours they have logged, is this a personal log
that is kept, or is every hour you fly entered into a national registry
and formally kept?

It is a personal log; no national registry is kept.

There is no public national registry per se. However, the FAA does track
each active pilot's flight hours, in that they are receiving regular reports
from the pilots when they apply for new certificates (including renewal of
the medical).

That may be irrelevant for the purpose of the original poster's intent
(since the FAA is still just trusting the pilot to report accurate numbers),
but it seems worth pointing out anyway.

Personal log, you buy them, there are many sizes, paper or
real leather bound. Many are now computerized. Many pilots
keep both types. Pilots are not required to log every hour
or minute, just those flights that are needed to prove some
experience, training or currency event.
see catalogs such as www.sportys.com or
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/
§ 61.51 Pilot logbooks.
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person
must document and record the following time in a manner
acceptable to the Administrator:

(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the
requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of
this part.

(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the
recent flight experience requirements of this part.

(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the
requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person
must enter the following information for each flight or
lesson logged:

(1) General-

(i) Date.

(ii) Total flight time or lesson time.

(iii) Location where the aircraft departed and arrived, or
for lessons in a flight simulator or flight training device,
the location where the lesson occurred.

(iv) Type and identification of aircraft, flight simulator,
or flight training device, as appropriate.

(v) The name of a safety pilot, if required by §91.109(b) of
this chapter.

(2) Type of pilot experience or training-

(i) Solo.

(ii) Pilot in command.

(iii) Second in command.

(iv) Flight and ground training received from an authorized
instructor.

(v) Training received in a flight simulator or flight
training device from an authorized instructor.

(3) Conditions of flight-

(i) Day or night.

(ii) Actual instrument.

(iii) Simulated instrument conditions in flight, a flight
simulator, or a flight training device.

(c) Logging of pilot time. The pilot time described in this
section may be used to:

(1) Apply for a certificate or rating issued under this part
or a privilege authorized under this part; or

(2) Satisfy the recent flight experience requirements of
this part.

(d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot
performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship
requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may
log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot
is the sole occupant of the aircraft.

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport,
recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log
pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which
that person-

(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft
for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;

(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or

(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in
command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is
required under the type certification of the aircraft or the
regulations under which the flight is conducted.

(2) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command
time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command
of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot
certificate.

(3) An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command
time all flight time while acting as an authorized
instructor.

(4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when
the student pilot-

(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing
the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more
than one pilot flight crewmember;

(ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under
§61.87 of this part; and

(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or
rating.

(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log
second-in-command time only for that flight time during
which that person:

(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command
requirements of §61.55 of this part, and occupies a
crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than
one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or

(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument
rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight)
for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is
required under the type certification of the aircraft or the
regulations under which the flight is being conducted.

(g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log
instrument time only for that flight time when the person
operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments
under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

(2) An authorized instructor may log instrument time when
conducting instrument flight instruction in actual
instrument flight conditions.

(3) For the purposes of logging instrument time to meet the
recent instrument experience requirements of §61.57(c) of
this part, the following information must be recorded in the
person's logbook-

(i) The location and type of each instrument approach
accomplished; and

(ii) The name of the safety pilot, if required.

(4) A flight simulator or approved flight training device
may be used by a person to log instrument time, provided an
authorized instructor is present during the simulated
flight.

(h) Logging training time. (1) A person may log training
time when that person receives training from an authorized
instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight
training device.

(2) The training time must be logged in a logbook and must:

(i) Be endorsed in a legible manner by the authorized
instructor; and

(ii) Include a description of the training given, the length
of the training lesson, and the authorized instructor's
signature, certificate number, and certificate expiration
date.

(i) Presentation of required documents. (1) Persons must
present their pilot certificate, medical certificate,
logbook, or any other record required by this part for
inspection upon a reasonable request by-

(i) The Administrator;

(ii) An authorized representative from the National
Transportation Safety Board; or

(iii) Any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.

(2) A student pilot must carry the following items in the
aircraft on all solo cross-country flights as evidence of
the required authorized instructor clearances and
endorsements-

(i) Pilot logbook;

(ii) Student pilot certificate; and

(iii) Any other record required by this section.

(3) A sport pilot must carry his or her logbook or other
evidence of required authorized instructor endorsements on
all flights.

(4) A recreational pilot must carry his or her logbook with
the required authorized instructor endorsements on all solo
flights-

(i) That exceed 50 nautical miles from the airport at which
training was received;

(ii) Within airspace that requires communication with air
traffic control;

(iii) Conducted between sunset and sunrise; or

(iv) In an aircraft for which the pilot does not hold an
appropriate category or class rating.

(5) A flight instructor with a sport pilot rating must carry
his or her logbook or other evidence of required authorized
instructor endorsements on all flights when providing flight
training.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61-103, 62
FR 40897, July 30, 1997; Amdt. 61-104, 63 FR 20286, Apr. 23,
1998; Amdt. 61-110, 69 FR 44865, July 27, 2004]




--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P


"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
| When pilots quote how many hours they have logged, is this
a personal log
| that is kept, or is every hour you fly entered into a
national registry and
| formally kept?
| Crash Lander
|
| --
| I'm not always right,
| But I'm never wrong!
|
|

"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
When pilots quote how many hours they have logged, is this a personal log
that is kept, or is every hour you fly entered into a national registry
and formally kept?

It's a personal log. But if the FAA has reason to be suspicious, they may
often be able to cross-check. Almost everyone does their primary training in
either rented or military planes; in either case, there's an independent
record of the planes' usage. At more advanced levels, pilots who fly for
airliners or some other commerical operators will likewise generate an
independent record of their flight hours. In between, though, there are
pilots who use their own planes for personal flying; those flight hours
would be harder to verify.

--Gary

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
When pilots quote how many hours they have logged, is this a personal log
that is kept, or is every hour you fly entered into a national registry
and formally kept?

It's a personal log. But if the FAA has reason to be suspicious, they may
often be able to cross-check. Almost everyone does their primary training
in either rented or military planes; in either case, there's an
independent record of the planes' usage. At more advanced levels, pilots
who fly for airliners or some other commerical operators will likewise
generate an independent record of their flight hours. In between, though,
there are pilots who use their own planes for personal flying; those
flight hours would be harder to verify.

--Gary


I once spoke to an owner who said that his way of controlling maintenance
costs was, "If he didn't log the flight, then the aircraft didn't either."

Crash Lander wrote:
When pilots quote how many hours they have logged, is this a personal log
that is kept, or is every hour you fly entered into a national registry and
formally kept?
Crash Lander


The closest that comes to a national databse is that the NTSB can go
pull the medical applications and application for ratings (where you
self declare your hours).