Lockheed FSS opinions

In article .com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

(Although I got one this morning who would only give information if
asked directly -- nothing was volunteered. After I hung up I wondered
if it was because I never said the magic words "I need a standard
weather briefing..."?)

I've never ever had to say I wanted a standard briefing, unless I've
indicated I had recently received a briefing.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

wrote:
I it just me, or does it seem like since Lockheed took over the FSS the
briefings have gone from relatively objective to overly conservative? It used to be
that you could talk with a briefer and they'd give you the facts and let you make your
own decision. Maybe with a "VFR not recommended, would you like to file IFR?"
Anymore it seems like when you talk to them they always try to talk you out of a
flight unless it's CAVU.

Anyone else experienced similar?

Cory,

I have noticed that a lot more recently from the New York and
Williamsport FSS. I wish I could compare it to the FSS I've used for
years (Millville) but the roof of their building collapsed and they shut
down early. I found the problem most acute while trying to get a
briefing for a flight review with the student present. The student
hadn't called FSS in dog's years, so I figured I'd put the FSS guy on
speakerphone and walk the student through it so he could get the next
briefing on his own, know what to ask for and know what to expect.

We had some spotty thunderstorms in the area and while we didn't intend
to fly that day, I didn't tell the briefer that. He immediately said
"Well, you have some thunderstorm activity out there. VFR flight is not
recommended. Can I help you with anything else?" No detail about where
the thunderstorms are, intensity, speed and direction they were moving,
and any suggested alternate routes like I used to get. Funny. I
thought *I* was the pilot and got to make the go/no-go decision.

When I put on my CFI cap and told him that I needed a full standard
briefing for training purposes he balked and said "well, I have a lot of
other people waiting". I told him I needed a standard briefing and
would get it from him OR his supervisor. He reluctantly granted me each
bit of the standard briefing, but only after I prompted him for
everything "and how about the winds....and the notams, etc." Totally
worthless briefer/briefing, if you ask me. And a clear sign of things
to come if we let these damn airline lobbyists privatize ATC.

-Doug

--------------------
Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI

http://www.dvatp.com
--------------------

Doug Vetter writes:

When I put on my CFI cap and told him that I needed a full standard
briefing for training purposes he balked and said "well, I have a
lot of other people waiting". [...]

Consider it from his point of view. Delaying other folks' calls may
negatively impact *their* safety.

And a clear sign of things to come if we let these damn airline
lobbyists privatize ATC.

That's a bit of a leap, isn't it?

- FChE

Yea, that's why I quit calling them.


wrote in message
...
I it just me, or does it seem like since Lockheed took over the FSS the
briefings have gone from relatively objective to overly conservative? It
used to be
that you could talk with a briefer and they'd give you the facts and let
you make your
own decision. Maybe with a "VFR not recommended, would you like to file
IFR?"
Anymore it seems like when you talk to them they always try to talk you
out of a
flight unless it's CAVU.

Anyone else experienced similar?

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

In article ,
Bob Noel wrote:

In article .com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

(Although I got one this morning who would only give information if
asked directly -- nothing was volunteered. After I hung up I wondered
if it was because I never said the magic words "I need a standard
weather briefing..."?)

I've never ever had to say I wanted a standard briefing, unless I've
indicated I had recently received a briefing.

I ask for an "enroute" briefing.
Is that the same as your standard briefing?

john smith wrote:
In article ,
Bob Noel wrote:

In article .com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

(Although I got one this morning who would only give information if
asked directly -- nothing was volunteered. After I hung up I wondered
if it was because I never said the magic words "I need a standard
weather briefing..."?)

I've never ever had to say I wanted a standard briefing, unless I've
indicated I had recently received a briefing.

I ask for an "enroute" briefing.
Is that the same as your standard briefing?

There is no such thing as an enroute briefing.

There is En Route Flight Advisory Service (EFAS), but this is for
inflight updates, pireps, etc.

The preflight briefings are standard, abbreviated, and outlook.

AIM 7-1-4.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

It's only a matter of time before someone sues Lockheed after a
weather-related fatality, claiming a faulty briefing or not enough
warning, etc. After all they will be the deepest pocket around, by
far. Lockheed knows this and are covering their asses for that
eventuality.

This is an unanticipated disadvantage of turning a government safety
function like this over to a private company, since the government
couldn't be sued over this kind of stuff so they could give more
objective info.

I work for a gov't contractor. There is such a term as GCD which is
Government Contractor Defense. Now, I don't know how the FSS contract is
worded, but for the stuff *I* do, if the government agrees with the
requirements & design I've provided to them, I'm covered in court if an
aw**** happens.

Caveat: I am not a lawyer. YMMV.

Well, I fly a bit, if 28 hours in the last 5 weeks is a bit.. I flew
2.9 hours Saturday across Lake Huron into the UP of Michigan and
another 3.1 on Sunday into Southern Lake Erie..
I fly across and around the Great Lakes whe "If you like the
weather, just wait, you won't"... So I talk to FSS all the time...
My experience is that right after the change over you got varied
briefings.. Some had diarrhea of the mouth and some you needed to put
the thumb screws on... This has evened out and I give the Lansing FSS
a two thumbs up now...

What I do is tell the briefer what I want... Example:
"The tail number is xxxx and type is a PA23-150, the equipment is slash
alpha with a non certified GPS moving map... I want to fly VFR
Southwest from Saginaw Michigan to Valpariso, indiana and then East to
the Cleveland area, Medina County airport (or where ever)... Time
inroute is estimated at 5 hours with the stops... Altitude 4500 or
higher...
Departing at 1300 Z, that is 9AM local...
I need the weather along that route, any TFR's, notams for those three
airports and anything affecting my route, and the winds at 3, 6 and
nine.."
And you know what? That is exactly what I get...
Now, if the wx is IFR and I need to file then I ask for, and get, a
standard briefing...

The only difference I now see is that some briefers want to hear the
airport designator and others just want the airport name and state...
Apparently that is still a work in progress...
denny

Well, I fly a bit, if 28 hours in the last 5 weeks is a bit.. I flew
2.9 hours Saturday across Lake Huron into the UP of Michigan and
another 3.1 on Sunday into Southern Lake Erie..

Dang, Denny. In the last week I've made the flight around the bottom
of Lake Michigan (from Iowa to Michigan) three times -- 15 hours in 7
days -- and each time, the weather has been completely different.

Yesterday we made it home literally minutes ahead of a huge storm
system, after racing it all the way from Lansing. With a headwind, we
were only able to bump along at around 130 knots, and we had to climb
to 8500 feet to get out of the usual August "5 miles and haze"...

With XM we were able to watch in horror as it bore down on Iowa
City...only to inexplicably stall just west of the city for the last 30
minutes. We were able to land uneventfully within sight of the
lightning and rain.

Flight service forecasts was almost useless on all of these flights, by
the way -- the weather was simply too variable. The simply didn't know
what they didn't know.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article . com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

Flight service forecasts was almost useless on all of these flights, by
the way -- the weather was simply too variable. The simply didn't know
what they didn't know.

Be fair!
They don't make the weather, they just report it and guess what it is
going to do next. :-))