Get-Home-Itis, Arrogance, or What?

Steve Foley wrote:
"Ron Snipes" wrote in message
news:uCHQg.157$b23.82@dukeread07...
"I can't tell, I think we're upside-down."

This gives me a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach.

Sorry for the stupid question, but how on earth is this possible? Can't
you tell if you're upside down or not? Or is it like being deep
underwater?

Marc

Sorry for the stupid question, but how on earth is this possible? Can't
you tell if you're upside down or not? Or is it like being deep
underwater?

If you're in cloud, you can't see out. When flying, you can generate g
forces (by turning, banking, climbing, etc) which can fool you into
thinking that "down" is in any direction. So, it's quite easy to not
know where up and down are. I suppose it's like being deep underwater,
but for different reasons.

This is one of the first things one must learn in instrument flying -
trust the instruments over your inner ear. They are less likely to be
lying to you.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
Sorry for the stupid question, but how on earth is this possible? Can't
you tell if you're upside down or not? Or is it like being deep
underwater?

If you're in cloud, you can't see out. When flying, you can generate g
forces (by turning, banking, climbing, etc) which can fool you into
thinking that "down" is in any direction. So, it's quite easy to not
know where up and down are. I suppose it's like being deep underwater,
but for different reasons.

This is one of the first things one must learn in instrument flying -
trust the instruments over your inner ear.

...and it's what I always thought was the actual purpose of the minimal
instrument flying taught in the PP curriculum, that is, you can't do it
without reference to the instruments. Second lesson is, that in
anything but momentary, smooth IMC, you can't do it without more training.

They are less likely to be
lying to you.

:-)

Marc Adler wrote:

Sorry for the stupid question, but how on earth is this possible? Can't
you tell if you're upside down or not? Or is it like being deep
underwater?

The way it was explained to me once is you have your own instrumentation
in your head that is similar to the attitude indicator in an airplane.
However it has to reset it's self quite frequently or it sends your
brain wrong information. When you are flying in the clouds, with out a
visual indication of what is up and down, your internal attitude
indicator gets out of calibration in just a few minutes or less (can't
remember how long). Then regardless of the feel of g force which could
be in any direction when flying, your now out of calibration internal
attitude indicator keeps telling your brain what it thinks is up which
is most likely wrong.


--
Chris W
KE5GIX

Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com

The Poison Theory

The poison theory attempts to provide an explanation for why motion
sickness and cybersickness occur from an evolutionary standpoint. The
theory suggests that the ingestion of poison causes physiological
effects involving the coordination of the visual, vestibular, and
other sensory input systems. These physiological effects act as an
early warning system which enhances survival by removing the contents
of the stomach.
--
For a sucessful technology, honesty must take precedence over public
relations for nature cannot be fooled.
Richard Feynman

("Ron Snipes" wrote)
Just how many G's does it take to rip the wings off a C-150? What a shame.
************************************************** ********************************************
NTSB Identification: NYC06FA215
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Monday, September 04, 2006 in Penhook, VA
Aircraft: Cessna 150G, registration: N2932J
Injuries: 2 Fatal.


This jumped out at me: pilot/passenger/plane running into, and breaking up,
in 'hard IMC'

....calm day.

The weather conditions reported at Roanoke Regional Airport (ROA), about 26
nautical miles northwest of the accident site, at 1154, included winds from
150 degrees at 6 knots, 3 statute miles visibility in light rain and mist,
scattered clouds at 500 feet, an overcast ceiling at 700 feet, temperature
63 degrees Fahrenheit, dewpoint 59 degrees Fahrenheit, and an altimeter
setting of 30.20 inches of mercury.

The weather conditions reported at Lynchburg Regional Airport (LYH), about
30 nautical miles northeast of the accident site, at 1126, included variable
winds at 3 knots, 2 statute miles visibility in heavy rain and mist, few
clouds at 1,100 feet, an overcast ceiling at 2,600 feet, temperature 63
degrees Fahrenheit, dewpoint 59 degrees Fahrenheit, and an altimeter setting
of 30.19 inches of mercury.


Montblack

Ron Snipes wrote:

Fuel similar in color to automotive fuel was found in both wing fuel tanks,
and in the carburetor. The fuel selector handle was found in the on
position. The engine crankshaft was rotated by hand at the propeller, which
remained attached, and valvetrain continuity was confirmed. Compression was
obtained on all cylinders, except for cylinder number 3, which was dislodged
from the crankcase. The impact damaged magneto leads were cut from the
magnetos, and rotation of both magnetos produced spark on all towers. The
spark plugs exhibited normal wear, and their electrodes were black in color.


I haven't read too many of these reports so this may be just standard
stuff, but it seems odd to me. They already determined the wings came
off in flight, why does it mater if the engine quit or not. The end
result would have still been the same.


--
Chris W
KE5GIX

Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com

Chris W schrieb:

I haven't read too many of these reports so this may be just standard
stuff, but it seems odd to me. They already determined the wings came
off in flight, why does it mater if the engine quit or not. The end
result would have still been the same.

Sometimes the obvious is not the whole story or even simply wrong. It's
essential to adhere to established procedures in investigations as well
as in the cockpit.

Stefan

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:10:50 -0400, "Ron Snipes"
wrote:

This accident was posted on the newsgroups right after it happened. Now
published on the NTSB website, which gives us more info than the 6pm news.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family left behind, but with that
said.....How can you throw everything you learned in Flight Training about
Weather, out the window. I also considered a subject line of: Just how many
G's does it take to rip the wings off a C-150? What a shame.

Actually it's very easy.
This is a typical case of VFR into IMC the pilot panicking (the I cant
see, I can't see tells that), gets disoriented, and losing control.
After that it's only a matter of time and not much of it before
something gets broken.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com