Using free online approach plates

Dave S wrote:
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Carrying an expired book is not a bad idea either.


I thought expired charts could bust you on a ramp check... yes? no?

No.

Part 91, no, Part 121-135, yes.



"Dave S" wrote in message
link.net...
| Andrew Sarangan wrote:
| Carrying an expired book is not a bad idea either.
|
|
| I thought expired charts could bust you on a ramp check...
yes? no?

| I thought expired charts could bust you on a ramp check...
yes? no?

Part 91, no, Part 121-135, yes.

So for part 121-135, expired charts are contraband? They cannot be
carried even as cargo?

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
| I thought expired charts could bust you on a ramp check... yes? no?


Part 91, no, Part 121-135, yes.


So for part 121-135, expired charts are contraband? They cannot be
carried even as cargo?

Jose

You can carry all the expired charts you want on a Part 135 or 121
flight. But, that in no way negates the requirement to have current
charts for the operation at hand. In the case of scheduled operations
that would be all the charts required to be in the manual. And, the FAA
has a copy of that manual in their office.

mvgossman wrote:
This concept makes me uneasy, but perhaps it would be reasonable to
have the regular FAA plates, allowing them to expire but retain them
for, say, a year, bring them along, and print out absolutely current
plates for the destination and likely alternates. This way, you could
have "old but a heckuva lot better than nothing" plates for very
unlikely scenarios in the bag. This would help save much money via not
getting 99% duplicate plates every 56 days yet provide satisfactory
safety.

This is exactly what I've been doing for years. Works fine.

One time I did wind up landing IFR at an airport for which I had no
current plates (I thought). Of course it was a diversion (huge
headwinds). I simply asked the controller to verify the revision
number of the plate for the approach I was assigned. Turned out I had
a current chart after all (they don't change that much).

I used to use AirCharts but found that it didn't take me any longer to
do what you are contemplating, it cost less, and it was actually more
convenient (I would staple the plates together in a trip book, and
would have all the charts I was likely to need for the whole trip in
one custom book).

Michael

Printing copies of the anticipated approach plates makes a lot of sense -
usually larger, easier to read, fit better on the clipboard, etc etc.
However, carrying old plates for the unanticipated diversion does NOT meet
the requirements of the FAR's and would, I suspect, be cause for the FAA to
bust you and/or the insurance company to disallow a claim in case of an
incident/accident.
"mvgossman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Anyone in the habit of going online for instrument approach plates
(terminal procedures), printing out only the plates you need for a trip
along with possible alternates and taking them in the plane?

This concept makes me uneasy, but perhaps it would be reasonable to
have the regular FAA plates, allowing them to expire but retain them
for, say, a year, bring them along, and print out absolutely current
plates for the destination and likely alternates. This way, you could
have "old but a heckuva lot better than nothing" plates for very
unlikely scenarios in the bag. This would help save much money via not
getting 99% duplicate plates every 56 days yet provide satisfactory
safety.

In case anyone does not know, very nice high quality plates are
available free at:

http://www.aeroplanner.com/flightpla...oachplates.cfm

This has the additional advantage of being able to print out larger
copies for those with imperfect reading vision and on higher quality
white paper.

Mitch

Sam Spade wrote:
Jose wrote:
| I thought expired charts could bust you on a ramp check... yes? no?


Part 91, no, Part 121-135, yes.


So for part 121-135, expired charts are contraband? They cannot be
carried even as cargo?

Jose

You can carry all the expired charts you want on a Part 135 or 121
flight. But, that in no way negates the requirement to have current
charts for the operation at hand. In the case of scheduled operations
that would be all the charts required to be in the manual. And, the FAA
has a copy of that manual in their office.

And if you happen to use an expired chart during an emergency or
unexpected diversion, even under part 121, I doubt the FAA would ding
you for that, as long as you flew the approach correctly and did not
cause an incident.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

And if you happen to use an expired chart during an emergency or
unexpected diversion, even under part 121, I doubt the FAA would ding
you for that, as long as you flew the approach correctly and did not
cause an incident.


That would be a problem for Part 121. Diversions are supposed to be
made to authorized airports. Even alternate-only airports have to be
listed in the op specs and have performance data in the flight manual.

An emergency is a different matter, but for most carriers a listed
airport is usually close enough to be the best plan for an emergency.

No approach charts for an emergency would be far more likely than
expired approach charts.

On 10/30/06 09:02, pgbnh wrote:
Printing copies of the anticipated approach plates makes a lot of sense -
usually larger, easier to read, fit better on the clipboard, etc etc.

Okay...

However, carrying old plates for the unanticipated diversion does NOT meet
the requirements of the FAR's and would, I suspect, be cause for the FAA to
bust you and/or the insurance company to disallow a claim in case of an
incident/accident.

Are you saying that the FAA requires that a part 91 pilot carry current
approach plates for airports to which he didn't anticipate he might be
diverted?

Which FAR is that?

"mvgossman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Anyone in the habit of going online for instrument approach plates
(terminal procedures), printing out only the plates you need for a trip
along with possible alternates and taking them in the plane?

This concept makes me uneasy, but perhaps it would be reasonable to
have the regular FAA plates, allowing them to expire but retain them
for, say, a year, bring them along, and print out absolutely current
plates for the destination and likely alternates. This way, you could
have "old but a heckuva lot better than nothing" plates for very
unlikely scenarios in the bag. This would help save much money via not
getting 99% duplicate plates every 56 days yet provide satisfactory
safety.

In case anyone does not know, very nice high quality plates are
available free at:

http://www.aeroplanner.com/flightpla...oachplates.cfm

This has the additional advantage of being able to print out larger
copies for those with imperfect reading vision and on higher quality
white paper.

Mitch






--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

I would vote for 91.13, 91.175, and common sense. You would probably not
want to fly on a commercial flight where the guys up front are using
approach plates that are known to be expired. Why expect that YOUR
passengers would want to do otherwise?
"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 10/30/06 09:02, pgbnh wrote:
Printing copies of the anticipated approach plates makes a lot of sense -
usually larger, easier to read, fit better on the clipboard, etc etc.

Okay...

However, carrying old plates for the unanticipated diversion does NOT
meet
the requirements of the FAR's and would, I suspect, be cause for the FAA
to
bust you and/or the insurance company to disallow a claim in case of an
incident/accident.

Are you saying that the FAA requires that a part 91 pilot carry current
approach plates for airports to which he didn't anticipate he might be
diverted?

Which FAR is that?

"mvgossman" wrote in message
oups.com...
Anyone in the habit of going online for instrument approach plates
(terminal procedures), printing out only the plates you need for a trip
along with possible alternates and taking them in the plane?

This concept makes me uneasy, but perhaps it would be reasonable to
have the regular FAA plates, allowing them to expire but retain them
for, say, a year, bring them along, and print out absolutely current
plates for the destination and likely alternates. This way, you could
have "old but a heckuva lot better than nothing" plates for very
unlikely scenarios in the bag. This would help save much money via not
getting 99% duplicate plates every 56 days yet provide satisfactory
safety.

In case anyone does not know, very nice high quality plates are
available free at:

http://www.aeroplanner.com/flightpla...oachplates.cfm

This has the additional advantage of being able to print out larger
copies for those with imperfect reading vision and on higher quality
white paper.

Mitch






--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA