About forward slips

wrote in message
ups.com...

Mxsmanic wrote:
What's the proper procedure to execute a forward slip, how should the
aircraft be expected to react when it is performed, and what are the
main uses of the forward slip? And why is it called a _forward_ slip?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_(aerodynamic)

Somebody said that MSFS cannot simulate forward slips correctly. What
is missing in the simulation?

I've read it has something to do with its inability to calculate the
lift, or perhaps just the default aircraft don't handle it. However,
I believe some third party aircraft explicity address the slip issue.
What's that C172 realistic addon? Drat. I've forgotten, but it's a
far better 172 than the stock one.

Note that, by default, MSFS is configured to link the rudder to the
ailerons. All turns are forced into coordinated turns, and there's no
independent rudder control.

Not true. You can deselect "Auto Rudder" and have independant rudder
control.

I believe the add-on 172 you are trying to think of is this one from Flight
1:

http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=esd172

That's a major reason why simmers who don't own rudder pedals get little
of the realism that the sim can sometimes offer.

Now that's a true statement.

Jay B

Jay Beckman wrote:
I believe the add-on 172 you are trying to think of is this one from Flight 1
http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=esd172

Thanks for that, but I finally recalled the one I was thinking of: the
"RealAir 172SP". It can do slips and spins, and felt pretty realistic
compared to the stock one.

Kev

wrote in
oups.com:


gatt wrote:
Three basic rules about slipping on final are 1) Don't stall, 2)
Don't stall and 3) Don't stall.

When I slip to landing, I always crank in some small forward (down)
trim just in case I get distracted. Am I the only one that's this
paranoid?

Hmmm, real bad time to be distracted *smile*.

You already are high on approach (why do the slip?), last thing you want to
do at least in my opinion is add down trim for additional speed????

Once I get my trim set for my 68 knot approach speed (on downwind), it
stays there until the tires meet the road.

My right hand never leaves the throttle on base to final.

Allen

A Lieberma wrote:
wrote in
oups.com:
When I slip to landing, I always crank in some small forward (down)
trim just in case I get distracted. Am I the only one that's this
paranoid?

You already are high on approach (why do the slip?), last thing you want to
do at least in my opinion is add down trim for additional speed????

Right, I don't want more speed unless needed, so I pull a little back
on the yoke. But the slight trim offset allows me to let go and
automatically speed up and thus not worry so much about a stall.

( I must do this because of something that scared me in the past, but I
can't for the life of me recall what it was. Perhaps slipping on a
very gusty day or something? Or having to push forward and there was
some problem doing so? I dunno! :-)

Thanks for the response! Perhaps I'll change this habit.
Kev

Note that, by default, MSFS is configured to ...
Not true. You can deselect "Auto Rudder"...

.... and then you are no longer in the default configuration.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

wrote:
gatt wrote:

Three basic rules about slipping on final are 1) Don't stall, 2) Don't stall
and 3) Don't stall.


When I slip to landing, I always crank in some small forward (down)
trim just in case I get distracted. Am I the only one that's this
paranoid?

Yes, you are.

Matt

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

wrote:
gatt wrote:

Three basic rules about slipping on final are 1) Don't stall, 2) Don't stall
and 3) Don't stall.


When I slip to landing, I always crank in some small forward (down)
trim just in case I get distracted. Am I the only one that's this
paranoid?

Yes, you are.

Matt

When I was practicing for my CFI ride, I was doing cross-controlled stalls
in an Arrow. Once you get over the initial concept that you're
intentionally trying to do what you've always been taught you're never
supposed to do, you quickly discover that (at least in an Arrow), it's
almost impossible to get the damn thing to actually stall like that. Full
rudder, full opposite ailerion, idle power, and full back elevator. The
damn thing just sort of slowly yaws (pro-rudder, as I remember), and mushes
like a wounded duck with its nose up the air.

Well, except for the one time that I did actually manage to get it to
stall. That was a little more exciting. My first indication that
something was wrong was when my flight bag went bouncing off the cabin
ceiling :-)

wrote in message
oups.com...

Jay Beckman wrote:
I believe the add-on 172 you are trying to think of is this one from
Flight 1
http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=esd172

Thanks for that, but I finally recalled the one I was thinking of: the
"RealAir 172SP". It can do slips and spins, and felt pretty realistic
compared to the stock one.

Rob Young and his team at Realair have done some wonderful work with slip
realism in MSFS.
It took some fancy programming too from what I understand.
Using pedals, the sim pilot is afforded a much closer accuracy factor toward
the aerodynamics involved in an actual slip, but there are aspects of the
equation that are extremely difficult to program into a simulation. For
example, the rate of sink due to drag in a slip will vary a great deal from
airplane to airplane at various angles of attack and amounts of applied
opposite rudder to negate the turn. Its a VERY complicated formula.
Mild slips have been possible using the default aircraft in the sim using
rudder pedals but the tendency to turn into the low wing has always been
there and becomes prevalent if the low wing is banked past a very low angle
of bank. In other words, using defaults, the bank angle overcomes the
adverse rudder required to create the slip by negating the offset lift
vector.
Realair, with some absolutely magnificent programming, managed to improve
the aerodynamics required for slips in their add on aircraft. I can attest
to the fact that their Spitfire for one, handles in a slip in the sim
exactly like its real counterpart, as does the 260. I haven't tested the
172, but I'm willing to bet the house its as accurate as the others.
Dudley Henriques
MVP/Flight Simulator

The other thing to remember is that the cross controlled condition in a
forward slip is a perfect setup for entry into an inverted spin or an
outside snap roll, which can be particularly impressive on short final in a
Cherokee.

A Lieberma writes:

He won't read it :-(

Wrong tense. He had already read it. But he hoped that someone here
might have something useful to contribute. Perhaps that optimism was
without justification.

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