more bitching about the IFR written - CDI left/right versus north/south/etc

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 11:52:39 -0500, Ron Natalie
wrote:

The OBS has no meaning to a CDI when using a localizer.
It's left or right of the localizer beam where "left and right" is defined
as looking inward on the front course. It's only when the pilot's left and
right is reversed (as they are looking inward on the back course) that things
are "reversed."


This is not true. The OBS ring has no effect on the needle, but it
certainly has meaning.

If the OBS ring is set to the inbound (only) localizer course, it can
be interpreted exactly as the equivalent VOR course.

wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 11:52:39 -0500, Ron Natalie
wrote:


The OBS has no meaning to a CDI when using a localizer.
It's left or right of the localizer beam where "left and right" is defined
as looking inward on the front course. It's only when the pilot's left and
right is reversed (as they are looking inward on the back course) that things
are "reversed."



This is not true. The OBS ring has no effect on the needle, but it
certainly has meaning.

If the OBS ring is set to the inbound (only) localizer course, it can
be interpreted exactly as the equivalent VOR course.

You can make the same interpretations no matter what the OBS is set to.
It is necessary and sufficient to know what the inbound course is.

The only time the selector is useful is on a HSI.

GPS indicators can reverse sense also.

wrote in
:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 11:52:39 -0500, Ron Natalie
wrote:

The OBS has no meaning to a CDI when using a localizer.
It's left or right of the localizer beam where "left and right" is
defined as looking inward on the front course. It's only when the
pilot's left and right is reversed (as they are looking inward on the
back course) that things are "reversed."


This is not true. The OBS ring has no effect on the needle, but it
certainly has meaning.

If the OBS ring is set to the inbound (only) localizer course, it can
be interpreted exactly as the equivalent VOR course.


Exactly. Glad to see someone else using a more sensible interpretation.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
C J Campbell wrote:
"G. Sylvester" wrote in message
...

A month or two ago there was a thread about CDI indicating north/south
vs. left/right in particular on front course and back course LOC.
I'm studying for the IFR written and not in a single place
does the FAA use north/south.


What in heck are you referring to? The CDI refers only to right or left
of
the course indicated by the OBS and the TO/FROM window. You have to know
how
to use the CDI when it appears to be reverse sensing.

The OBS has no meaning to a CDI when using a localizer.
It's left or right of the localizer beam where "left and right" is defined
as looking inward on the front course. It's only when the pilot's left
and
right is reversed (as they are looking inward on the back course) that
things
are "reversed."

That is all true.

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:43:20 -0800, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
om...
C J Campbell wrote:
"G. Sylvester" wrote in message
...

A month or two ago there was a thread about CDI indicating north/south
vs. left/right in particular on front course and back course LOC.
I'm studying for the IFR written and not in a single place
does the FAA use north/south.


What in heck are you referring to? The CDI refers only to right or left
of
the course indicated by the OBS and the TO/FROM window. You have to know
how
to use the CDI when it appears to be reverse sensing.

The OBS has no meaning to a CDI when using a localizer.
It's left or right of the localizer beam where "left and right" is defined
as looking inward on the front course. It's only when the pilot's left
and
right is reversed (as they are looking inward on the back course) that
things
are "reversed."

That is all true.



Almost.

The OBS has much meaning to a CDI when using a localizer course, if
you just know how to interpret said meaning.

wrote in message
...

The OBS has no meaning to a CDI when using a localizer.
It's left or right of the localizer beam where "left and right" is
defined
as looking inward on the front course. It's only when the pilot's
left
and
right is reversed (as they are looking inward on the back course) that
things
are "reversed."

That is all true.



Almost.

The OBS has much meaning to a CDI when using a localizer course, if
you just know how to interpret said meaning.

It has no meaning to the CDI, which after all is an inanimate object. If you
are properly trained it should have some meaning for you.

There are a whole bunch of useless questions that you just have to get
through. Like the one where you have to pick which aircraft corresponds
to the given CDI indications. Who cares where the aircraft is. You will
no longer be there by the time you blink. What matters most is which
direction you have to turn to. Unfortunately, not only does the FAA
teach this contorted method of CDI interpretation, the majority of CFI's
also teach this way, and many are not even aware that there is a simpler
way. I wrote an article about this and sent it to a few magazines, and
it was turned down because they thought that this method was too
'controversial'. You can see my article at
http://www.geocities.com/asarangan/aviation.html



"G. Sylvester" wrote in news:Bi5Dd.8613
:

A month or two ago there was a thread about CDI indicating north/south
vs. left/right in particular on front course and back course LOC.
I'm studying for the IFR written and not in a single place
does the FAA use north/south. Again I'm banging my head
wondering does a lowly IFR student like me have to scream
learn the wrong way. Further they have questions about MLS
approaches?
Has anyone ever flown one or even seen one? I don't
even know what equipment is required for one. A historical
note about this, the founders of the company I work for
were (partial?) inventers of the MLS back in I think the 1940's
or early 50's. One of the brothers (Sig Varian, I think) was a
pilot for a major but ended up biting it while
landing in Mexico at night. He intended to land on
the beach but ended up putting it in the drink.

The same bitching goes to the lack of reference to technology.
I really can't imagine hand flying in the soup, thunderstorms
around, turbulence, at night, etc. and playing around with
an E6B. Umm, how long does a leg take, ummm, give me
2 seconds and the 430 will take care of that. Of course
double check the 430 but an E6B is a bit out dated. It works
and works without batteries but if things are that bad
all around, the last thing I'm doing. If hells breaks loose
and needed to use one, I think I'd declare an emergency over
121.5.

sorry to vent.....and no need to remind me how the FAA
is screwed up. Overall though I gotta give them a LOT
of credit as it seems like one of the few big government
agencies that has it reasonably together.

Gerald Sylvester

On 6 Jan 2005 22:40:48 -0600, Andrew Sarangan
wrote:

Unfortunately, not only does the FAA
teach this contorted method of CDI interpretation, the majority of CFI's
also teach this way, and many are not even aware that there is a simpler
way. I wrote an article about this and sent it to a few magazines, and
it was turned down because they thought that this method was too
'controversial'.


It is this kind of stoneage thinking in aviation that is the reason,
for example, that we can log 20 hours of instrument time on totally
ancient, obsolete, and archaic potentiometer-driven simulators, but
only can get 10 hours on a modern, state-of-the-art computer-driven
simulator with many times the capabilities and function.

There is much about aviation stuck in a time warp. Personally, I'm
surprised that we have moved as fast as we have with GPS, (which is
about half as fast as we could and should have.)

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
1...
There are a whole bunch of useless questions that you just have to get
through. Like the one where you have to pick which aircraft corresponds
to the given CDI indications. Who cares where the aircraft is. You will
no longer be there by the time you blink.

Are you saying that the aircraft moves from one quadrant to the other in the
blink of an eye?