Freezing rain: What do the airline pilots do?

SLC and frost, who would have thunk it?

Frost can be polished smooth, but a gallon or two of alcohol
spray does a good job on light aircraft as long as there is
no precip falling and the sun is out. Airports stock
alcohol for windshield and prop deicing on aircraft. Don't
use the stuff they sell at the auto stores for car
windshields, it will probably damage the plastic windows on
your plane.

The best cure,aside from a trip to Florida, is a heated
hanger. Roll the plane in under the IR heaters, and
pre-flight while the frost disappears. Cold weather
pre-flights are often rushed and incomplete because of the
cold.

If you have to do it outside in -20 wind-chill, dress
properly, hypothermia can make the take-off dangerous since
your mind won't be work at 100%.




"gpsman" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jim Macklin wrote: brevity snip

Before take-off, airlines spray boiling hot water on the
airplane (180° or so) to remove the snow and ice, then
they
switch to a heated mixture of water and anti-freeze to
keep
any ice from accumulating on the airplane during the time
it
takes to taxi and take-off. As rain/snow fall on the
plane
and melt, the antifreeze solution become diluted and the
water will begin to freeze in hinges and such.

Light frost on the aircraft prompted our pilot in SLC to
de-ice.
One plane ahead of us: total delay ~45 minutes.

http://i16.tinypic.com/4gr9p8n.jpg
http://i10.tinypic.com/2rcu9sh.jpg
-----

- gpsman

Jim Macklin wrote:

The FAA parts 121 and 135 do not allow take-off in certain
extreme icing conditions, but pilots have the authority to
NOT GO even when the regulation might allow.

The Canadian MOT doesn't allow takeoff with any ice. Some, however,
have forgotten that:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/...0117-0&lang=en

FAA requires ice removal for all take-offs, but depending on
what the weather conditions are, take-off may or may not be
allowed. Light snow, drizzle can be controlled by
application of anti-icing fluids after de-icing. But heavy
rain, whether freezing or not will wash the anti-icing
fluids away and allow to form.


"cavedweller" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| The FAA parts 121 and 135 do not allow take-off in
certain
| extreme icing conditions, but pilots have the authority
to
| NOT GO even when the regulation might allow.
|
| The Canadian MOT doesn't allow takeoff with any ice.
Some, however,
| have forgotten that:
|
|
http://aviation-safety.net/database/...0117-0&lang=en
|

Jim Macklin wrote:
FAA requires ice removal for all take-offs,

The Pelee accident came to mind because of the similarity with recent
weather in the Detroit/Windsor area with the condtions at the time of
that accident in 2004 and the almost matching dates.

I see only two problems here, well maybe three:

Cruise altitude may not be 'too cold' for ice accumulation, ice
normally tends to fester from between -5 through -15 c.
You need to take off, and land flying through the muck. In some of the
worst cases, anti-ice and deice equipment cannot keep up with the ice
buildup wether it be wings, tail, control surfaces, windscreen,
propellers, if that is the case, bad scene. With a really bad ice
storm and freezing rain due to a widespread tempurature inversion,
most ground operations are stopped until conditions improve.

Have a great one!

Bush


3. getting ice on planes as they fly. Most commercial jets fly
really fast, which has two effects: first, it means that the planes
will fly through the freezing levels quickly (and up higher where it
is too cold for ice accumulation), so they don't pick up much ice.
Also, the wings and control surfaces get heated by the passing air,
and are warm enough that ice doesn't tend to stick to the plane. So
in many circumstances the jet can just fly through the freezing
conditions and not worry about it.


On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 10:05:01 -0500, "Peter R."
wrote:

In watching a freezing rain/snow storm move from the midwest up to the
northeast US today, I again wonder how the airlines deal with freezing
rain. Are many flights canceled during a freezing rain storm or is it
business as usual?

Does a deicing on the ground and anti-icing equipment on the aircraft
provide the protection needed to fly into or out of freezing rain
conditions for the airline aircraft?

"Gene Seibel" wrote in message
When I was recently sitting on an airliner waiting to take off, we were
told that we couldn't take off because at the time there were both
freezing rain and ice pellets. We were told that they could take off if
either went away, but not as long as both continued. They claimed it
was an FAA requirement.

Every year before the winter season, the FAA publishes an updated Advisory
Circular with data for ground de-icing. The airlines adopt the AC for their
operation and train their personel. The term 'ice pellets' came about after
a crash (IIRC the Montrose, CO, Challenger crash), and after the year's
de-icing data was released. Because that years's data came out before 'ice
pellets' were defined, the airlines didn't have approved data for dealing
with ice pellets. When the ATIS had the words 'ice pellets' in it, there was
no approved data for dealing with ice pellets., and the airlines were
temporarily grounded until the ATIS no longer had the term 'ice pellets' in
it. Then we could start de-icing. This year's ground de-icing data includes
ice pellets, so there shouldn't be as many problems.

D.

"Peter R." wrote in message
In watching a freezing rain/snow storm move from the midwest up to the
northeast US today, I again wonder how the airlines deal with freezing
rain. Are many flights canceled during a freezing rain storm or is it
business as usual?

If the runway is useable, it's business as usual, except for delays incurred
for ground de-icing and inclimate weather.

Does a deicing on the ground and anti-icing equipment on the aircraft
provide the protection needed to fly into or out of freezing rain
conditions for the airline aircraft?

For jets, almost always. Airbus put wing anti-ice on the outer half of the
A-320 wings only because the FAA wouldn't sign-off on the design if they
didn't. The B-727 doesn't have anti-ice on the tail surfaces because ice
doesn't accumulate there to any appreciable degree. The MD-80 is approved to
take-off without performance penalties with an eight inch of frost on the
underside of the wing (clear ice on the topside of the -80 wing is a serious
problem but doesn't happen in flight).

D.