Multiengine Rating

You're getting a lot of great responses from several well respected posters.
Bob must be too proud to toot his own horn, so I will, GET Bob Gardner's
multiengine text! It's a great book, very down to earth, and very complete.

I did my initial multi training in an Apache (which when heavily loaded on a
hot day will really show you what the second engine is for), created a
partnership that purchased an Aztec (which we love) and did my MEI training
in a Beech Travel Air.

Jim

I'd love to own a 59 Chevy convertible, but I'd rather own a BE58TC!

Karl


"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
The Duchess is just a 4 place airplane, but its
single-engine performance is such that it can legally be
flown under Part 135 IFR rules, the Seminole performance is
such that it can't maintain the MEA on one engine on many
routes.

If I was buying a piston twin, I'd want a BE59TC.



"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
. ..
|I expect to get flamed for saying this, but the Duchess and
Seminoles are
| just trainers, and the Seneca is a real airplane. I have
flown a Seminole
| (with four onboard) in the tops of a stratus layer, unable
to climb into the
| clear. From what I read, the DA42 is quite an airplane,
but I have no idea
| what its cost is compared to others. It, too, is a real
airplane as opposed
| to a trainer.
|
| Bob Gardner
|
| wrote in message
|
oups.com...
| Hi,
|
| i'm interested in the multiengine rating (land),
VFR-add-on to my
| PP-ASEL.
| Any comments about the best training aircraft for these
purpose ?
| (PA34 Seneca, Beech Duchess, PA44 Seminole, Diamond
DA42, ..)
|
| There are big differences concerning the rating
requirements.
| Some flight schools offer a multi training of 6 hours,
other 25 hours
| for the rating.
|
| Why it is so ?
|
| Mike
|
|
|

wrote:
Hi, i'm interested in the multiengine rating (land), VFR-add-on to my
PP-ASEL.
Any comments about the best training aircraft for these purpose ?
(PA34 Seneca, Beech Duchess, PA44 Seminole, Diamond DA42, ..)

There are big differences concerning the rating requirements.
Some flight schools offer a multi training of 6 hours, other 25 hours
for the rating.


Depending on what you want to do with the rating, a VFR-only twin pilot
would be rather limited. Getting the instrument rating before the multi
would make you more marketable, if that's your intent (and save you an
extra checkride).

I did my multi training in a Seneca 1, and haven't flown any of the
others you listed but they'll all get the job done. The Seneca is
probably the roomiest which is nice if you're a big guy, whereas the
Seminole is essentially a twin engine Arrow (kinda snug) and the
Duchess felt kinda cozy when I sat in one. The only other difference I
know of is the Seminole has counter-rotating engines which eliminates
its critical engine and lowers Vmc a few knots. I don't know of any
flight schools with DA42 TwinStars as they're so new to the fleet, but
I'd jump at the chance to go fly one.

As far as the differences in program time requirements, I don't think
there is a minimum # of hours to get the endorsement as it's up to your
instructor when you'd take the checkride. However, having the multi
rating is no guarantee you'll be able to rent a twin, as insurance
requirements are the determining factor as to whether the flight school
will hand you the keys. Besides a total time requirement, some schools
require an instrument rating and/or a commercial license in addition to
X hours multi time; sometimes there's a "time in type" requirement too.

karl gruber wrote

I'd love to own a 59 Chevy convertible, but I'd rather own a BE58TC!

My very first automobile was a brand new '59 Chevy convertible, all
white with a red interior. I was a Naval Aviation Cadet flying S-2
Trackers at NAS Kingsville, TX.

Bob Moore

For those who do not know, the BE58TC is a Beech Baron with
the wings and engines of a 58P but the fuselage of the
straight 58. It has the 6200 pound gross weight and weights
400 pounds less than the 58P. So it carries 400 pounds more
payload and performs very well in the 10-12,000 foot range
without demanding the pilot be on oxygen.

But I'd really like a Duchess on floats with 200-220 hp
engines.



"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
| I'd love to own a 59 Chevy convertible, but I'd rather own
a BE58TC!
|
| Karl
|
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
| The Duchess is just a 4 place airplane, but its
| single-engine performance is such that it can legally be
| flown under Part 135 IFR rules, the Seminole performance
is
| such that it can't maintain the MEA on one engine on
many
| routes.
|
| If I was buying a piston twin, I'd want a BE59TC.
|
|
|
| "Bob Gardner" wrote in message
| . ..
| |I expect to get flamed for saying this, but the Duchess
and
| Seminoles are
| | just trainers, and the Seneca is a real airplane. I
have
| flown a Seminole
| | (with four onboard) in the tops of a stratus layer,
unable
| to climb into the
| | clear. From what I read, the DA42 is quite an
airplane,
| but I have no idea
| | what its cost is compared to others. It, too, is a
real
| airplane as opposed
| | to a trainer.
| |
| | Bob Gardner
| |
| | wrote in message
| |
|
oups.com...
| | Hi,
| |
| | i'm interested in the multiengine rating (land),
| VFR-add-on to my
| | PP-ASEL.
| | Any comments about the best training aircraft for
these
| purpose ?
| | (PA34 Seneca, Beech Duchess, PA44 Seminole, Diamond
| DA42, ..)
| |
| | There are big differences concerning the rating
| requirements.
| | Some flight schools offer a multi training of 6
hours,
| other 25 hours
| | for the rating.
| |
| | Why it is so ?
| |
| | Mike
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|

Depending on what you want to do with the rating, a VFR-only twin pilot
would be rather limited. Getting the instrument rating before the multi
would make you more marketable, if that's your intent (and save you an
extra checkride).


Many Rental Agencies will not rent a Twin to a VFR Pilot
The insurance company makes the rules.

I rent a Seneca II that requires Instrument Rating, 500hrs total time and 75
hours ME time.
You can get around the 75 hr requirement if you complete the ME Rating with
their program and in their airplane, but you are limited to 1 pax until
50hrs ME time.

If you can rent a Twin without the Instrument rating. Then work on your
commercial written and maneuvers in a Piper Arrow or similar aircraft, at
the same time intersperse some Twin Training.

Take the Commercial SEL check ride one month, and the Commercial MEL within
a few days.
Without an Instrument Rating, your Commercial credentials will be limited.

BT

Jim Burns wrote:
I did my initial multi training in an Apache (which when heavily loaded on a
hot day will really show you what the second engine is for), created a
partnership that purchased an Aztec (which we love) and did my MEI training
in a Beech Travel Air.



I used to fly for a cancelled check courier service that used Apaches. When
they first were transitioning me from the Lance to the Apache, I really didn't
want to fly it. Their's had the usual nonstandard instrument placement that I
came to expect from them but one of their birds had the long Aztec nose and 180
hp engines instead of the usual 150 hp engines. I was really leery of flying it
but they pushed and pushed until I agreed.

The first time I was supposed to fly it the chief pilot showed up with it early
one morning. As it turned out, we had a huge load that morning and with the two
of us on board, we were going to be about 300 lbs over gross. "Go ahead and
take it back to RDU without me. It'll never get off the ground with both of
us", I said.

"Sure it will.", he said.

"Bull****."

Well, he kept insisting so I finally agreed. What the hell, I had a good mile
and a half of runway in front of me. Surely we could waddle into the sky with
that kind of space. I poured the coals to it.

That thing came off the ground like a scalded cat before I crossed the
intersecting runway 1100 feet down from where I started. "Hmmm...there might be
something to this after all." I came to really appreciate its ability to climb
and later learned how ridiculously short and steep you could land it. People
used to come out to watch me land it just because you wouldn't think an airplane
could do what that one could. I ended up really enjoying flying it (except in
the rain where I would land looking like I'd ridden on the outside). When it
was cold the Janitrol heater would cause me to get headaches and my lips would
go numb. And riding though thunderstorms was like a cork floating in the ocean
with those big fat wings. But it sure would fly.

Then one day it was sick and I had to fly one of the older Apaches with the 150
hp engines. What a POS. Couldn't recommend that to anyone.

One thing they all shared was a single hydraulic pump that was needed to raise
and lower both gear and flaps. If you lost the left engine, you lost a hell of
a lot. IIFC they had generators instead of alternators too. The carburetors
were prone to carb ice in humid conditions. And the radios were state of the
art when Lindbergh crossed the Atlantic.

Interesting flying, that.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

BT wrote:
If you can rent a Twin without the Instrument rating. Then work on your
commercial written and maneuvers in a Piper Arrow or similar aircraft, at
the same time intersperse some Twin Training.

Take the Commercial SEL check ride one month, and the Commercial MEL within
a few days.
Without an Instrument Rating, your Commercial credentials will be limited.


Nobody was interested in renting a twin at all in my area, so I put the multi
rating on the back burner until I had a need. I'd gotten my private,
instrument, and then commercial license and just started building hours by hook
or by crook. I eventually was in the right place at the right time and talked
my way into single engine part 135. I started doing single pilot charters for
them and saw the handwriting on the wall.... it was time to see about a multi
rating (my company used a C-402B for multi charter; a Cherokee Six or C-210 for
single engine charter).

I went down to Atlanta to one of the flight schools that advertised at the time
in Trade-A-Plane. I'm too lazy to go downstairs and see how many hours it took
but it wasn't all that much (maybe 6 or so). We did most of the training in a
multi sim, then went for a couple of flights in a Seminole. After that it was
just a check ride with a designated examiner who was on staff at the flight
school.

I continued doing my single engine charter for the company until one day I was
scheduled to fly as copilot on a C-402 trip and the pilot didn't show up (went
on a bender instead). Didn't call, nothing. Just didn't show up... but I did.
I ended up flying the folks in a Cherokee Six. The following week, I got
checked out as PIC in the C-402. Nice airplane. I enjoyed flying it a lot.

The point of all this is that getting a multi rating as the first add-on to a
private license is probably going to be a waste of time and money. You'll get
infinitely more utility out of an instrument rating. Then when things fall into
place, you can always add the multi rating later. It just isn't that big a
deal.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:


but one of their birds had the long Aztec nose and 180
hp engines instead of the usual 150 hp engines.

That was the PA 23-180, "Geronimo" conversion. I got my multi in one of
those
and later had a real engine out experience (right one) on a cross
country with my family.
Fortunately, we were not in the mountains.

Mortimer Schnerd, RN writes:

We did most of the training in a multi sim, then went for a couple
of flights in a Seminole.

Why waste time in a sim? It has nothing to do with real flying. I
know this because experts here have told me so.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.