Navy Wings?

The best example is the prop pipline which ceased CARQUALing all SNA's in the mid-70's.

Not to mention USCG fixed-wing aviators, who all wear Wings of Gold and who (to my best knowledge) have never been required to hit the boat.

--
Mike Kanze

"There's a fine line between evil and underpaid."

- Carol The Secretary, Dilbert (1/14/2007)

"John" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:25:51 -0500, vincent p. norris
wrote:

The got gold wings wihout CQing?

Absolutely! Anyone who completes the Naval Aviation Training Command
syllabus for their pipeline gets gold wings, regardless of whether
they carrier qualified or not. The best example is the prop pipline
which ceased CARQUALing all SNA's in the mid-70's. Only those with
orders to the E-2/C-2 go through the CARQUAL syllabus.

The better answer for the original post is that it is probaby
astronaut wings. I believe there is one USMC flag office that was on a
shuttle team. Don't recall who or whether they were pilot or mission
specialist.

USN Astronaut wings are gold and the center device could look like a
star with the right lighting and camera angle.

John Alger USN(ret)
1972-1997 // 1310,1320
TA-4J, A-7E, EC-130Q, P-3B

John wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:25:51 -0500, vincent p. norris
wrote:


The got gold wings wihout CQing?


Absolutely! Anyone who completes the Naval Aviation Training Command
syllabus for their pipeline gets gold wings, regardless of whether
they carrier qualified or not. The best example is the prop pipline
which ceased CARQUALing all SNA's in the mid-70's. Only those with
orders to the E-2/C-2 go through the CARQUAL syllabus.

The better answer for the original post is that it is probaby
astronaut wings. I believe there is one USMC flag office that was on a
shuttle team. Don't recall who or whether they were pilot or mission
specialist.

USN Astronaut wings are gold and the center device could look like a
star with the right lighting and camera angle.

John Alger USN(ret)
1972-1997 // 1310,1320
TA-4J, A-7E, EC-130Q, P-3B


The Jan 2006 issue of All Hands magazine list all the badges/pins.
The OP might look here and see if he recognizes the one he is
referencing. Link below (requires Adobe reader).

http://www.news.navy.mil/media/allha...t/ah200601.pdf

Byron

During the Vietnam era a number of USMC flight students went through the USAF pilot training pipeline as an expediency.

Migawd!!! I never heard that!!!

I was a Marine-no-longer-on-active-duty by that time, but nevertheless
it's hard to believe. Can you supply details?

vince norris

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:22:12 -0500, vincent p. norris
wrote:

During the Vietnam era a number of USMC flight students went through the USAF pilot training pipeline as an expediency.

Migawd!!! I never heard that!!!

I was a Marine-no-longer-on-active-duty by that time, but nevertheless
it's hard to believe. Can you supply details?

vince norris

That would have been around 1968-70. At that time the requirements for
Naval Aviators exceeded what Pensacola could produce. For comparison
it should be noted that USAF pilot training went up from eight to ten
bases dedicated to the mission.

Although the USAF didn't have truly "excess" capability, they could
absorb a bit of the load for the Navy. We took one USMC student per
class (8 classes per year) per base (10 bases). The Marines went
through the full and complete USAF UPT syllabus (T-41/T-37/T-38) and
upon graduation were awarded USAF pilot wings.

They then went to Pensacola for USN completion training which included
CARQUAL. As far as I know, they were all fast jet tracked. Upon
completion of that abbreviated program they were awarded USN gold
wings and assigned to their operational training.

I was a UPT instructor during the period at Williams AFB in AZ. Since
then I've crossed paths with several of the students and swapped TINS
stories.

As a follow-on, at the wind-down of the war, requirements were
drastically reduced (late 1970) and while USAF chose to cut the
training pipeline at the acquisition point--reduce recruiting for
pilot slots, the Navy opted to cut immediately across the board. On
one Black Friday they went into Pensacola and cut more than 400
students in training. Several were within weeks of graduation.

A number of these Navy pilot candidates were given the opportunity for
inter-service transfers and were picked up by the USAF where they
completed UPT. (At that time I was on the MAJCOM staff at Air Training
Command managing UPT/UNT/UHT and Survival courses).


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:34:22 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote:

snipped for brevity

As a follow-on, at the wind-down of the war, requirements were
drastically reduced (late 1970) and while USAF chose to cut the
training pipeline at the acquisition point--reduce recruiting for
pilot slots, the Navy opted to cut immediately across the board. On
one Black Friday they went into Pensacola and cut more than 400
students in training. Several were within weeks of graduation.

I remember this. I was in Pensacola with a CQ det from VS-30 (the S-2
RAG) the next week. I had a cousin about to graduate from AOC and he
got RIFed. He told me that they just went in and cut the bottom 50%
of each class. He was awaiting his discharge.

You could pick up REAL good deals on "muscle cars" as the BOQ parking
lot looked like a used car lot for all the "for sale" signs.

Navy personnel management practices are not always "top drawer." :-(

Bill Kambic
Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN
Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

one Black Friday they went into Pensacola and cut more than 400 students in training.

I remember this too. I had just finished BJN School at NAS Glynco, after having been offered a switch from RIO School (I was 3 weeks into the RIO pipeline) because "the Navy desperately needed A-6 B/Ns."

You can guess the rest. No one in our BJN class got any A-6 RAG orders, and there were no impending inputs into the A-3 or RA-5C RAGs (the two other outlets at that time for BJN grads). My entire class was SERGRADed.

I felt sorry for myself, but not for long once the word got out about the Big Attrite. At least I had wings, a DIFOT billet at VT-7 / NAS Meridian, and a deferred shot at the bird (A-6) and coast (west) of my choice. It all worked out OK, except my 18 months at NMM were the longest 3 years of my life.

--
Mike Kanze

"There's a fine line between evil and underpaid."

- Carol The Secretary, Dilbert (1/14/2007)

wrote in message ...
On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:34:22 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote:

snipped for brevity

As a follow-on, at the wind-down of the war, requirements were
drastically reduced (late 1970) and while USAF chose to cut the
training pipeline at the acquisition point--reduce recruiting for
pilot slots, the Navy opted to cut immediately across the board. On
one Black Friday they went into Pensacola and cut more than 400
students in training. Several were within weeks of graduation.

I remember this. I was in Pensacola with a CQ det from VS-30 (the S-2
RAG) the next week. I had a cousin about to graduate from AOC and he
got RIFed. He told me that they just went in and cut the bottom 50%
of each class. He was awaiting his discharge.

You could pick up REAL good deals on "muscle cars" as the BOQ parking
lot looked like a used car lot for all the "for sale" signs.

Navy personnel management practices are not always "top drawer." :-(

Bill Kambic
Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN
Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

On 2007-01-19 08:34:22 -0800, Ed Rasimus said:

[...]
Although the USAF didn't have truly "excess" capability, they could
absorb a bit of the load for the Navy. We took one USMC student per
class (8 classes per year) per base (10 bases). The Marines went
through the full and complete USAF UPT syllabus (T-41/T-37/T-38) and
upon graduation were awarded USAF pilot wings.

[...]

A number of these Navy pilot candidates were given the opportunity for
inter-service transfers and were picked up by the USAF where they
completed UPT.

Given the numbers you say the Navy cut, at least some of the pilots
given the chop must have been Marine sticks, right Ed? Which means,
presumably, that before UPT they would have gotten at least a good dose
of the "Every Marine is a rifleman!" USMC ethos in Corps OCS, if not
four years of it in NROTC. Must have been an interesting for these
guys to find themselves abruptly in the Air Force. I'm imagining a
freshly-winged butter bar in USAF dress blues except with a high 'n
tight, blood stripe on the trousers and a boarding sabre on his hip.


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On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:59:00 -0800, Bill Baker
wrote:

Given the numbers you say the Navy cut, at least some of the pilots
given the chop must have been Marine sticks, right Ed?

IIRC this was a Navy RIF. I'm not sure any Marines got cut.

IIRC in the '72-'74 timeframe USN promotions to LT took a big
"nosedive." In the VP community it was particularly ugly. I also
remember that at least one year group got a second selection board (a
pretty rare occurence).

The funny thing was that by late '78 they were recalling Reservists to
fill mostly (but not exclusively) Training Command slots. They in '81
they had enough warm bodies to screw the guys they recalled. :-(

Like I say, Navy personnel management sometimes leave a lot to be
desired.

Bill Kambic
Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN
Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

they would have gotten at least a good dose of the "Every Marine is a rifleman!" USMC ethos in Corps OCS, if not four years of it in NROTC.

Not sure, but I think all USMC officer flight students went through The Basic School (TBS) at Quantico before heading down to Pensacola. Makes sense, since if one could not get passed TBS, there was not point in throwing good $$ after bad.

As has been said well by others, the Senate may make one a Second Lieutenant, but only TBS will make one an officer of Marines.

--
Mike Kanze

"There's a fine line between evil and underpaid."

- Carol The Secretary, Dilbert (1/14/2007)

"Bill Baker" wrote in message ...
On 2007-01-19 08:34:22 -0800, Ed Rasimus said:

[...]
Although the USAF didn't have truly "excess" capability, they could
absorb a bit of the load for the Navy. We took one USMC student per
class (8 classes per year) per base (10 bases). The Marines went
through the full and complete USAF UPT syllabus (T-41/T-37/T-38) and
upon graduation were awarded USAF pilot wings.

[...]

A number of these Navy pilot candidates were given the opportunity for
inter-service transfers and were picked up by the USAF where they
completed UPT.

Given the numbers you say the Navy cut, at least some of the pilots
given the chop must have been Marine sticks, right Ed? Which means,
presumably, that before UPT they would have gotten at least a good dose
of the "Every Marine is a rifleman!" USMC ethos in Corps OCS, if not
four years of it in NROTC. Must have been an interesting for these
guys to find themselves abruptly in the Air Force. I'm imagining a
freshly-winged butter bar in USAF dress blues except with a high 'n
tight, blood stripe on the trousers and a boarding sabre on his hip.


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Bill Baker wrote:
On 2007-01-19 08:34:22 -0800, Ed Rasimus said:

[...]
Although the USAF didn't have truly "excess" capability, they could
absorb a bit of the load for the Navy. We took one USMC student per
class (8 classes per year) per base (10 bases). The Marines went
through the full and complete USAF UPT syllabus (T-41/T-37/T-38) and
upon graduation were awarded USAF pilot wings.

[...]

A number of these Navy pilot candidates were given the opportunity for
inter-service transfers and were picked up by the USAF where they
completed UPT.

Given the numbers you say the Navy cut, at least some of the pilots
given the chop must have been Marine sticks, right Ed? Which means,
presumably, that before UPT they would have gotten at least a good dose
of the "Every Marine is a rifleman!" USMC ethos in Corps OCS, if not
four years of it in NROTC. Must have been an interesting for these
guys to find themselves abruptly in the Air Force. I'm imagining a
freshly-winged butter bar in USAF dress blues except with a high 'n
tight, blood stripe on the trousers and a boarding sabre on his hip.

Did these guys even have a blue uniform? I had an exchange tour with
the USAF, as an IP, 61st TFS/13th TFTS and even the COC was in zoom
bags. I didn't put my 'uniform' on for 2 years, even when I was in
trouble for wearing brown boots and a leather flight jacket.


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