The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he cleared Comair 5191 for takeoff

"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...
Dave S wrote in news:T%_uh.16106$yx6.10555
@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:


Is this really about making things safer, or is this about exploiting
tragedy to advance an agenda?

While we pilots shouldn't depend on "safety nets", in my opinion, ATC is
our safety net for when we make mistakes.

ATC's job is separation. If they catch something, that's dandy. As such, if
a passenger catches something, that's dandy, too.

Matt Barrow wrote:

"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...

Dave S wrote in news:T%_uh.16106$yx6.10555
:


Is this really about making things safer, or is this about exploiting
tragedy to advance an agenda?

While we pilots shouldn't depend on "safety nets", in my opinion, ATC is
our safety net for when we make mistakes.


ATC's job is separation. If they catch something, that's dandy. As such, if
a passenger catches something, that's dandy, too.


ATC provides separation when working IFR aircraft. The local
controllers' duties are different. They provide sequencing and safe use
of runways and takiways. "Separation" in the context of IFR separation
is not part of the local job when the Class D area is VFR.

The ATC handbook references I provided earlier certainly are pertinent
to some extent.

Sam Spade writes:

ATC provides separation when working IFR aircraft. The local
controllers' duties are different. They provide sequencing and safe use
of runways and takiways. "Separation" in the context of IFR separation
is not part of the local job when the Class D area is VFR.

The controller did all of that here. Where's the problem?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

ATC provides separation when working IFR aircraft. The local controllers'
duties are different. They provide sequencing and safe use of runways and
takiways. "Separation" in the context of IFR separation is not part of
the local job when the Class D area is VFR.


ATC provides runway separation to IFR and VFR aircraft.

Sam Spade wrote:


ATC provides separation when working IFR aircraft. The local
controllers' duties are different.

No they are not.



They provide sequencing and safe use
of runways and takiways. "Separation" in the context of IFR separation
is not part of the local job when the Class D area is VFR.


It most certainly is and the weather is irrelevant.

"Matt Barrow" wrote in
:

ATC's job is separation. If they catch something, that's dandy. As
such, if a passenger catches something, that's dandy, too.

Safety / Security is in layers :-)

Note, I said ATC was a safety net, not their job for ensuring our safety
EXCEPT in IMC where we depend on ATC to maintain seperation.

Under VMC, it's our job to ensuring seperation, but ATC would be our safety
net should we miss something. Just like passengers spotting another plane,
always nice to have that handy, though IMC that's not possible (plane
spotting that is).

Allen

"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...
"Matt Barrow" wrote in
:

ATC's job is separation. If they catch something, that's dandy. As
such, if a passenger catches something, that's dandy, too.

Safety / Security is in layers :-)

Note, I said ATC was a safety net, not their job for ensuring our safety
EXCEPT in IMC where we depend on ATC to maintain seperation.

Under VMC, it's our job to ensuring seperation, but ATC would be our
safety
net should we miss something. Just like passengers spotting another
plane,
always nice to have that handy, though IMC that's not possible (plane
spotting that is).

A safety net exists to catch mistakes.

Under your scenario, you're relying on ATC as a backup. I'd say that's a bad
idea to have that notion in that back of ones head. This, though, in no way
takes away from asking for specific assistance as a situation warrants.

Matt Barrow wrote:

ATC's job is separation. If they catch something, that's dandy. As such, if
a passenger catches something, that's dandy, too.


Towers do darn little separation as well.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow wrote:

ATC's job is separation. If they catch something, that's dandy. As such,
if a passenger catches something, that's dandy, too.
Towers do darn little separation as well.

Okay, separation and sequencing.

But they are NOT a safety net, which as I point out in another post, exists
to catch mistakes. ATC is NOT our co-pilot.

Dave S wrote:

Very interesting reading... and while there may be plenty of blame to
pass around, when push comes to shove, the aircraft was cleared to
depart from the proper runway, but the Pilot In Command effectively
failed to ensure that they were in fact lined up on that runway. It was
his responsibility. Regardless of any and all other contributing
factors, the FAA and the air traffic controllers weren't flying the
plane, the Pilot (and his crew) was.

Is this really about making things safer, or is this about exploiting
tragedy to advance an agenda?

It was obvious very soon after the crash (several days) that the
pilots (two) screwed up. Try as you want to blame others there were
two people responsible for taking off the ONLY viable runway for their
aircraft and they blew it.

Ron Lee