Under Entirely New Management, concluded - Turncoat-17E.jpg (1/1)

You're missing the point. Displaying it as a historical item is not showing hatred for anyone. It's not liking someone's shaking it in your face. The war was a long time ago, give it a rest.


On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:59:26 -0000, Ken Gerlach wrote:

Clearly Dave is neither a Jew or an historian. I lived through that war and
know why display of the Hakenkreuz is still frowned upon by those who
remember.

Dr G K Gerlach


"CWO4 Dave Mann" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Hucker wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:39:13 -0000, CWO4 Dave Mann
wrote:

Mitchell Holman wrote:

Interesting note for the Germans: The Nazi Hakenkreuz (Swastika) has
been crudely photoshopped out of this picture so that it will be "legal"
to have, display and send/receive in Germany.

I am not belabouring the German people here, just making an observation.

Cheers,

Dave

You can't send/receive a swastika in Germany? That's a little childish.




I seem to recall that it is due to a law which first regulated Nazi-era
souvenirs. But, there was concern by the Germans about the burgeoning
neo-Nazi groups which flourished in the old East Germany after the
Reunification.

An example is eBay.de -- the German eBay system. Nazi-"anything" are not
allowed on that system. There was a lawsuit a few years back, but I
dis-remember the details.

I suppose we could look at it from several views:

1. It is the result of Political Correctness gone mad in a world already
insane.

2. It is a cloying Government technique to stifle free speech -- which is
not guaranteed by the German constitution anyway.

3. It is a reaction to the rebirth of the Nationalist Socialist Workers
Movement (Nazi Party) in modern day uniforms but in 1930's style jack
boots.

4. It is a sop to the leftists of Germany whose goal may be to convert
Germany to a Socialist state and want to remove the Hitler times from the
history books.

5. It is due to pressure from the Jewish Rulers of the World -- a Ukase
issued from the secret Fortress of International Jewry located near Mount
Ararat in a cave.

6. It is a legitimate but ill-thought-out attempt by government censors
to limit exposure of modern day Germans to Nazi idealization.

7. Erasing the Swastika from historical images is required by law ..
eventually there will be no-one alive who remembers and it will be "old
history" anyway that nobody studies because they are too busy
demonstrating against something.

As a historian, I think it is unwise to elimiate images which may offend.
Look at the re-creation of history and historical pictures which took
place under the regimes of Stalin and Hitler and the manipulation of
historically important facts such as FDR's paralysis and the fact that he
was wheel-chair-bound ...

Would you believe that it is only in the 1990's that a statue of FDR
showing him in his wheel chair was "allowed" to be made and placed in a
national historical park? Something like that denies the existance of
Polio and more importantly the fortitude of Roosevelt in overcoming his
mobility impairment.

Removing the swastika and make the Seig arm salute illegal in Germany
simply removed one more link to an already distorted view of history.

Travel to any German city today and try to find the local Synagogue.
Naturally there are none, but you will find only a small brass plaque
which has some simplistic words such as "here was the location of the
Jewish Congregation of Beth-Israel which existed from 1525 to 1938 and
which was destroyed by the Nazi government in World War Two." That
statement leaves a whole bunch of history out, to be sure. Somewhere
along the line "Never Again" becomes lost to the casual on-looker, Jew or
non-Jew alike.

I've meandered along here, but the bottom line is that once freedom of
speech and expression becomes constricted or restricted, it is a very
slippery downhill slope.

That slippery slope conundrum is one reason that I, a veteran of 30 years
military service, two wars and with a purple heart to show for it was not
in favor of the flag burning amendment. As obnoxious as I find the
maltreatment of Old Glory, once the law says a person cannon express
themselves by defacing Her, then what will the next step be? How about
"Speaking Out Against the Policies of the Government".

That should give you chills.

Meanwhile,

Cheers,

Dave







--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Reading while sunbathing makes you well red.

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:46:13 -0000, CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:39:13 -0000, CWO4 Dave Mann wrote:

Mitchell Holman wrote:

Interesting note for the Germans: The Nazi Hakenkreuz (Swastika) has
been crudely photoshopped out of this picture so that it will be "legal"
to have, display and send/receive in Germany.

I am not belabouring the German people here, just making an observation.

Cheers,

Dave

You can't send/receive a swastika in Germany? That's a little childish.




I seem to recall that it is due to a law which first regulated Nazi-era
souvenirs. But, there was concern by the Germans about the burgeoning
neo-Nazi groups which flourished in the old East Germany after the
Reunification.

An example is eBay.de -- the German eBay system. Nazi-"anything" are
not allowed on that system. There was a lawsuit a few years back, but I
dis-remember the details.

I suppose we could look at it from several views:

1. It is the result of Political Correctness gone mad in a world
already insane.

2. It is a cloying Government technique to stifle free speech -- which
is not guaranteed by the German constitution anyway.

3. It is a reaction to the rebirth of the Nationalist Socialist Workers
Movement (Nazi Party) in modern day uniforms but in 1930's style jack boots.

4. It is a sop to the leftists of Germany whose goal may be to convert
Germany to a Socialist state and want to remove the Hitler times from
the history books.

5. It is due to pressure from the Jewish Rulers of the World -- a Ukase
issued from the secret Fortress of International Jewry located near
Mount Ararat in a cave.

6. It is a legitimate but ill-thought-out attempt by government censors
to limit exposure of modern day Germans to Nazi idealization.

7. Erasing the Swastika from historical images is required by law ..
eventually there will be no-one alive who remembers and it will be "old
history" anyway that nobody studies because they are too busy
demonstrating against something.

As a historian, I think it is unwise to elimiate images which may
offend. Look at the re-creation of history and historical pictures
which took place under the regimes of Stalin and Hitler and the
manipulation of historically important facts such as FDR's paralysis and
the fact that he was wheel-chair-bound ...

Would you believe that it is only in the 1990's that a statue of FDR
showing him in his wheel chair was "allowed" to be made and placed in a
national historical park? Something like that denies the existance of
Polio and more importantly the fortitude of Roosevelt in overcoming his
mobility impairment.

Removing the swastika and make the Seig arm salute illegal in Germany
simply removed one more link to an already distorted view of history.

Travel to any German city today and try to find the local Synagogue.
Naturally there are none, but you will find only a small brass plaque
which has some simplistic words such as "here was the location of the
Jewish Congregation of Beth-Israel which existed from 1525 to 1938 and
which was destroyed by the Nazi government in World War Two." That
statement leaves a whole bunch of history out, to be sure. Somewhere
along the line "Never Again" becomes lost to the casual on-looker, Jew
or non-Jew alike.

I've meandered along here, but the bottom line is that once freedom of
speech and expression becomes constricted or restricted, it is a very
slippery downhill slope.

That slippery slope conundrum is one reason that I, a veteran of 30
years military service, two wars and with a purple heart to show for it
was not in favor of the flag burning amendment. As obnoxious as I find
the maltreatment of Old Glory, once the law says a person cannon express
themselves by defacing Her, then what will the next step be? How about
"Speaking Out Against the Policies of the Government".

That should give you chills.

Meanwhile,

Cheers,

Dave

Agreed on all counts. Well put.


--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Thought for the Day:
The Bible teaches us to love your neighbour, and the Kama Sutra explains how.

Even in the Netherlands in the mid 50's, any plastic model-kit of German
aircraft had decals with the swatika missing.
At the time it was explained to me that the symbol might be "offensive" to
some people. Go figure..

wrote in message
...
Even in the Netherlands in the mid 50's, any plastic model-kit of German
aircraft had decals with the swatika missing.
At the time it was explained to me that the symbol might be "offensive" to
some people. Go figure..

The swastika was missing all the way through the '80s. I don't recall
exactly when the ban was lifted, but only now they are slowly appearing here
and there.
You may not realise where the offense came from. It came from two distinct
events: the large percentage of Dutch jews that never returned from nazi
hospitality (outranked only by the Polish percentage), and the fact that a
very large portion of the country was starved by the german occupation after
the Dutch initiated a railroad strike after "market-Garden" (the notorious
failure of the Arnhem air-assault). The nazis stepped up their
terror-campaign, holding more razzias, and killing 100 resistance members
and deporting all men from the town of Putten to slave labour camps (the
town itself was set ablaze) in revenge for the attempted assasination of the
head of the SD. In addition to this, the coalmines were now on the "wrong"
side of the frontline, so not only food was missing, but heating as well. As
any service-member who served in the Ardennes can tell you, 1944-1945 was
the coldest winter in a very long time. In spite of food-help from Sweden
and Switzerland/IRC (which saved thousands of lives), the situation became
so bad that US and RAF bombercrews were flying to the western provinces with
food instead of bombs during the final days of the war (operations
"Manna"(RAF) and Chowhound (USAF).
Read about that on http://users.interstroom.nl/~heijink/ and you will
understand why the swastika is (to this day) considered to be offensive.

Ron
--
Non urinat in ventum