A tower-induced go-round

I am not sure I would have gotten " behind the power curve" in gusty
conditions. A sooner bailout on your determination would have been
prudent. A 360 for spacing while still on final seems better then
dragging it in. After all you are PIC and responsible for the safety
of the flight. Glad you got home safely..

Yeah, I thought about doing a 360, but it was so danged gusty that
turning at low altitude was very uncomfortable. (More for the family
than for me, of course.)

It was one of those days where, if you kept the wind on your nose, it
wasn't bad, but as soon as you turned and had the relative gusts
hitting you from the side, things got rolly-polly pretty quickly.
Nothing more uncomfortable (for me, anyway) than having turbulence
trying to lift the high wing to vertical in a turn.

Having landed at OSH and SNF a bunch of times, I'm pretty used to slow
flight and close spacing. Everything would have worked out, if the
controller had told the 172 to land long and exit immediately -- but
it wasn't to be.

No big deal, but at the end of a very long flight it was more work
than I needed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

No big deal, but at the end of a very long flight it was more work
than I needed.

As my flight instructor used to say, consider it a "character building
exercise".

--
jr

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

Yeah, I thought about doing a 360, but it was so danged gusty that
turning at low altitude was very uncomfortable. (More for the family
than for me, of course.)



Aeronautical Information Manual
Official Guide to Basic Flight Information and ATC Procedures

Chapter 4. Air Traffic Control

Section 3. Airport Operations

4-3-5. Unexpected Maneuvers in the Airport Traffic Pattern

There have been several incidents in the vicinity of controlled airports
that were caused primarily by aircraft executing unexpected maneuvers. ATC
service is based upon observed or known traffic and airport conditions.
Controllers establish the sequence of arriving and departing aircraft by
requiring them to adjust flight as necessary to achieve proper spacing.
These adjustments can only be based on observed traffic, accurate pilot
reports, and anticipated aircraft maneuvers. Pilots are expected to
cooperate so as to preclude disrupting traffic flows or creating conflicting
patterns. The pilot-in-command of an aircraft is directly responsible for
and is the final authority as to the operation of the aircraft. On occasion
it may be necessary for pilots to maneuver their aircraft to maintain
spacing with the traffic they have been sequenced to follow. The controller
can anticipate minor maneuvering such as shallow "S" turns. The controller
cannot, however, anticipate a major maneuver such as a 360 degree turn. If a
pilot makes a 360 degree turn after obtaining a landing sequence, the result
is usually a gap in the landing interval and, more importantly, it causes a
chain reaction which may result in a conflict with following traffic and an
interruption of the sequence established by the tower or approach
controller. Should a pilot decide to make maneuvering turns to maintain
spacing behind a preceding aircraft, the pilot should always advise the
controller if at all possible. Except when requested by the controller or in
emergency situations, a 360 degree turn should never be executed in the
traffic pattern or when receiving radar service without first advising the
controller.

Except when requested by the controller or in
emergency situations, a 360 degree turn should never be executed in the
traffic pattern or when receiving radar service without first advising the
controller.

Yep, although I couldn't quote chapter and verse, this is what I
figured the rules were.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
Except when requested by the controller or in
emergency situations, a 360 degree turn should never be executed in the
traffic pattern or when receiving radar service without first advising the
controller.


Yep, although I couldn't quote chapter and verse, this is what I
figured the rules were.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



I did a 360 once in the pattern at a class D airport. the tower and the
conflicting traffic forgot about me. I was on final. he turned traffic
following me inthe pattern in front of me. The other traffic had no
awareness... I keyed the mike to let them know what was going on...
doh. got stepped on. did a 360 and then called AFTER. I was not
worried about doing something wrong - I was worried about getting killed
by the controller who dropped the ball and two pilots in the other plane
who were not paying attention to what the heck was going on in the pattern.

It happens too often. Do what you need to do to stay alive.

On 16 Mar 2007 18:58:53 -0700, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Today we experienced a new first, when the tower controller at
Jefferson City, Missouri decided to cut a Cessa 172 in front of me on
a short right base, *after* clearing me to land on Rwy 30
snipped a bunch of good stuff What type of aircraft were you flying?
--

Jim in Houston
osPAm
Nurse's creed: Fill what's empty, empty what's full,
and scratch where it itches!! RN does NOT mean Real Nerd!

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

snipped a bunch of good stuff What type of aircraft were you flying?

'74 Piper Pathfinder -- PA28-235.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 16 Mar 2007 18:58:53 -0700, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

Today we experienced a new first, when the tower controller at
Jefferson City, Missouri decided to cut a Cessa 172 in front of me on
a short right base, *after* clearing me to land on Rwy 30.


Yeah, well he should have canceled your landing clearance, or at least
communicated with you. Or, if you couldn't accept a delay in your
clearance (and a medical emergency is as valid as a mechanical emergency),
you should have communicated with him.

He knew he had a student pilot so was giving him priority, I guess (can't
be sure without reading his mind).

Unless you ask him (and I'd do that on the ground), you can't really be
sure of all the nuances of the situation.

At many airports (in the US), giving multiple a/c clearances to land
without the runway being clear is not unusual. The controller is betting
he'll have the required clearance when you get there. Most of the time it
works out. Sometimes not shrug.

I get that frequently going into KASH, which has a lot of student activity.
Most of the time it works out with me doing slow flight and waiting for the
the a/c ahead to land; sometimes I request a 360 for spacing; and rarely
I'll get a go-around (usually from a controller who doesn't realize how
slowly I can fly my Mooney).
--ron

At many airports (in the US), giving multiple a/c clearances to land
without the runway being clear is not unusual. The controller is betting
he'll have the required clearance when you get there. Most of the time it
works out. Sometimes not shrug.

The controllers at one of the local Class D airports in southeast Florida
have a reputation for being rather cautious--and not doing that. (That's a
deliberate understatement, although there some extenuating
circumstances--including a high volume of IFR traffic.)

I strongly suspect that many (perhaps most) pilots pilots usng that airport
would be much happier with a quicker flow of traffic and more frequent
go-arounds.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:58:26 -0500, "Peter Dohm"
wrote:


At many airports (in the US), giving multiple a/c clearances to land
without the runway being clear is not unusual. The controller is betting
he'll have the required clearance when you get there. Most of the time it
works out. Sometimes not shrug.

The controllers at one of the local Class D airports in southeast Florida
have a reputation for being rather cautious--and not doing that. (That's a
deliberate understatement, although there some extenuating
circumstances--including a high volume of IFR traffic.)

I strongly suspect that many (perhaps most) pilots pilots usng that airport
would be much happier with a quicker flow of traffic and more frequent
go-arounds.



It's places like BOS and other big city airports where the practice is
common.

I've been in situations where I've not been given a landing clearance until
the runway was clear.

I've also been in a situation where I was flying a Cessna 150 cleared to
land 15 hold short of Rwy 5 -- This was just after clearances to land had
been issued to a KC-135 for RWY 5; and a C-130 for Rwy 33!! (The C-130 was
practicing downwind landings).

--ron