Cloud Flying

I would assume that you need to be flying IFR with all the attendant issues
(equipment, talking to ATC, etc...)

of course, and they really aren't "issues" Pretty standard flying for
many pilots.

On Mar 20, 8:39 pm, wrote:
I would assume that you need to be flying IFR with all the attendant issues
(equipment, talking to ATC, etc...)

of course, and they really aren't "issues" Pretty standard flying for
many pilots.

No need to talk to anybody and don't need a transponder if you are in
class G airspace. Of course that limits your options a bit but there
is some suitable class G in Arizona. Some disagree so see previous
discussions.

Andy

"Andy" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 20, 8:39 pm, wrote:
I would assume that you need to be flying IFR with all the attendant
issues
(equipment, talking to ATC, etc...)

of course, and they really aren't "issues" Pretty standard flying for
many pilots.

No need to talk to anybody and don't need a transponder if you are in
class G airspace. Of course that limits your options a bit but there
is some suitable class G in Arizona. Some disagree so see previous
discussions.

Andy


Most class G airspace of usable dimensions exists in the western US
mountains. It has a ceiling of 14,500 feet except where designated
otherwise on sectionals. This is lower than most pilots are comfortable
with in the mountains. Most often there are no clouds in this airspace if
thermic conditions exist since cu bases tend to be much higher.

If convective clouds do exist in these areas, they are likely to be ice
generators. I have seen rime ice form at the rate of 1/2"/min in cumulus
over mountains.

Cloud flying in Class G, while not unimaginable, is not likely to be very
practical. More plausable is soaring under IFR rules in Visual
Meteorlogical Conditions for XC wave flights in Class A as has been done
over the Sierras. A fully equipped glider, an instrument rating, and a
clearance is your ticket out of the wave window.

Cumulus cloud flying works best below the freezing level - Florida seems
ideal for this.

Bill Daniels

wrote:
I would assume that you need to be flying IFR with all the attendant issues
(equipment, talking to ATC, etc...)

of course, and they really aren't "issues" Pretty standard flying for
many pilots.

Still a pretty big issue, though, for those of us who only fly gliders
and don't want to fly anything else.

Getting IFR trained without having to learn more than I want about
running an engine seems relatively hard.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Mar 21, 8:29 am, "Andy" wrote:
On Mar 20, 8:39 pm, wrote:

I would assume that you need to be flying IFR with all the attendant issues
(equipment, talking to ATC, etc...)

of course, and they really aren't "issues" Pretty standard flying for
many pilots.

No need to talk to anybody and don't need a transponder if you are in
class G airspace. Of course that limits your options a bit but there
is some suitable class G in Arizona. Some disagree so see previous
discussions.

Andy

Read the regs, dont need a transponder in Class E either, even if
IFR. Only required for gliders in Class B and C or overflying Class
C.

icing would be an issue in the midwest if flying in towering cu's.
but i can see a lot of advantage flying clouds in the midwest in my
low performance glider. Especially on low days where XC below
cloudbase might not be the best idea, but the tops of the cu's are up
around 8 or 10,000. A lot of days i could double my height above
ground if i could thermal into the clouds.

On Mar 21, 11:16 am, Martin Gregorie wrote:
wrote:
I would assume that you need to be flying IFR with all the attendant issues
(equipment, talking to ATC, etc...)

of course, and they really aren't "issues" Pretty standard flying for
many pilots.

Still a pretty big issue, though, for those of us who only fly gliders
and don't want to fly anything else.

Getting IFR trained without having to learn more than I want about
running an engine seems relatively hard.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

i guess it just depends on how bad you want to cloud fly, apparently
not bad enough.

wrote:


Getting IFR trained without having to learn more than I want about
running an engine seems relatively hard.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

i guess it just depends on how bad you want to cloud fly, apparently
not bad enough.

Exactly. What is it - 40 hours of flight time to get the IFR ticket?
With aircraft and instructor costs, that could easily be $4000. Then the
time and cost to stay current, and I don't mean just to meet currency
requirements, but enough time to be competent. If all you are using the
IFR for is flying in clouds and not as part of your flying in airplanes
for work or travel, this seems a marginal value to me. And, of course,
there's the expense of fitting the required equipment to the glider,
which, with a transponder and horizon, could easily be another $4000.

The cost and time would be less daunting if the IFR ticket was also used
to fly in wave above 18,000. I've given some thought to that, and I
already have a transponder, but it's still quite a commitment to get the
IFR rating and practice enough to remain competent and safe.

The pilots I know that do IFR in gliders already had the IFR rating for
airplanes before they decided to use it in gliders. Has anyone gotten
the rating just to use in gliders?

Too bad we can't do it as simply as the Brits and some of the Europeans.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Too bad we can't do it as simply as the Brits and some of the Europeans.


Perhaps some of us already do but don't talk about it in public?

Mike

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org

On Mar 21, 7:09 am, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
"Andy" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Mar 20, 8:39 pm, wrote:
I would assume that you need to be flying IFR with all the attendant
issues
(equipment, talking to ATC, etc...)

of course, and they really aren't "issues" Pretty standard flying for
many pilots.

No need to talk to anybody and don't need a transponder if you are in
class G airspace. Of course that limits your options a bit but there
is some suitable class G in Arizona. Some disagree so see previous
discussions.

Andy

Most class G airspace of usable dimensions exists in the western US
mountains. It has a ceiling of 14,500 feet except where designated
otherwise on sectionals. This is lower than most pilots are comfortable
with in the mountains. Most often there are no clouds in this airspace if
thermic conditions exist since cu bases tend to be much higher.

If convective clouds do exist in these areas, they are likely to be ice
generators. I have seen rime ice form at the rate of 1/2"/min in cumulus
over mountains.

Cloud flying in Class G, while not unimaginable, is not likely to be very
practical. More plausable is soaring under IFR rules in Visual
Meteorlogical Conditions for XC wave flights in Class A as has been done
over the Sierras. A fully equipped glider, an instrument rating, and a
clearance is your ticket out of the wave window.

Cumulus cloud flying works best below the freezing level - Florida seems
ideal for this.

Bill Daniels

Find a Phoenix sectional and look near Bagdad. Plenty of separation
between terrain and 14k for cloud climbs to be made. As I said in
previous threads the only reason I didn't do it was I didn't want to
build a gyr panel and have to mess with it for contest flying. Now my
28 is day vfr limited on its US experimetal ticket so I can't anyway.

Andy

On Mar 21, 9:57 am, wrote:
Read the regs

Did I say something that conflicted with that? My condition was no IFR
flight plan AND no transponder.