Oral exam place and questions

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

JGalban via AviationKB.com writes:

As I recall, the PTS had a
requrement that the flight plan must be completed in 30 min. Later
on (in the rule overhaul of '96, IIRC), they dropped the 30 min. time
limit.

Why was there ever a time limit? Presumably you prepare flight plans
in advance, and it's not a race against the clock, but something you
do deliberately and carefully, however long it takes.

How would you know? You've never prepared an instrument flight plan..


You are an idiot.


Bertie

JGalban via AviationKB.com wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:


Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride.

Really? I don't remember that tradition. I took my ride in '88
and at that time, the DE would (maybe) tell you where the pseudo
cross country was going to go. On the day of the examination, you
were required to do the flight plan right there in front of the DE.
As I recall, the PTS had a requrement that the flight plan must be
completed in 30 min. Later on (in the rule overhaul of '96, IIRC),
they dropped the 30 min. time limit.


Not in '79 or '96 either.

In '79 when I did my PPL I'd never met or talked to my DE before I flew down
to take the check ride. In '95 when I got my helicopter rating the DE was
himself being examined by an FAA examiner. I had been talking to the FAA guy
before I started and he knew I already had my PPL and that this was just an
add-on.

When the DE started asking questions about navigation the FAA guy stopped
him and said don't ask those. It shortend the check out considerably.

On Apr 10, 12:56 pm, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
JGalban via AviationKB.com wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride.

Really? I don't remember that tradition. I took my ride in '88
and at that time, the DE would (maybe) tell you where the pseudo
cross country was going to go. On the day of the examination, you
were required to do the flight plan right there in front of the DE.
As I recall, the PTS had a requrement that the flight plan must be
completed in 30 min. Later on (in the rule overhaul of '96, IIRC),
they dropped the 30 min. time limit.

Not in '79 or '96 either.

In '79 when I did my PPL I'd never met or talked to my DE before I flew down
to take the check ride. In '95 when I got my helicopter rating the DE was
himself being examined by an FAA examiner. I had been talking to the FAA guy
before I started and he knew I already had my PPL and that this was just an
add-on.

When the DE started asking questions about navigation the FAA guy stopped
him and said don't ask those. It shortend the check out considerably.- Hide quoted text -

Everyone know that helicopters are too slow to go anywhere that would
require navigation (I assume the PTS table didn't require navigation
be covered when adding roto to your ASEL ticket)

-robert

On Apr 10, 12:19 pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride.

Really? I don't remember that tradition. I took my ride in '88 and at
that time, the DE would (maybe) tell you where the pseudo cross country was
going to go. On the day of the examination, you were required to do the
flight plan right there in front of the DE. As I recall, the PTS had a
requrement that the flight plan must be completed in 30 min. Later on (in
the rule overhaul of '96, IIRC), they dropped the 30 min. time limit.

You must be really old. Since the late 90's all the DE's I've worked
with have called the CFI the night before and assigned a cross country
along with the DE's weight.

-Robert

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message
news:7081f5c06ccd4@uwe...
Robert M. Gary wrote:


Traditionally the students were told what calculations to do ahead of
time and would arrive with a flight plan, W&B, performance, balanced
field, etc asked for by the DE the night before the ride.

Really? I don't remember that tradition. I took my ride in '88 and at
that time, the DE would (maybe) tell you where the pseudo cross country
was
going to go. On the day of the examination, you were required to do the
flight plan right there in front of the DE. As I recall, the PTS had a
requrement that the flight plan must be completed in 30 min. Later on (in
the rule overhaul of '96, IIRC), they dropped the 30 min. time limit.


Hey, I just bought a Garmin 96 and I can plan a flight now in about 30
seconds. I bet DE don't like this technique on an exam though :-)

Danny Deger

If I'm asked how long it will take to go 84 nm at 120 kts, I know that it's
about 40 minutes, but if an exact answer is required I don't see how I
could practically provide that without a calculator.

Whizwheels were the classic, calculators are acceptable.

I learned to fly in France in the mid-80's, and all student pilots were taught
to do these calculations mentally, using the "facteur de base" = 60/TAS. It
takes practice but works really well.

On Apr 9, 7:36 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
I've been reading about oral exams for a private pilot license (in the U.S.),
and two questions have come to mind.

Where does this exam take place? Is it in a classroom, or in a testing
center, or is it actually in the aircraft?

When you are asked math-type questions, are you expected to answer with just a
ballpark figure or an exact answer? In the latter case, can you use a
calculator, or pencil and paper, or must you do it in your head?

If I'm asked how long it will take to go 84 nm at 120 kts, I know that it's
about 40 minutes, but if an exact answer is required I don't see how I could
practically provide that without a calculator.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

It is actually done at a place of the examiner (and usually the
examinee) mutually agreed upon location..

Just speaking for myself...when I do non airline exams I like to have
a quiet place, if possible with a big picture of the panel (if not the
airplane manual with a sample picture) and access to some wx
information...if not I carry my own and give it to the candidate as a
part of a X country planning excersize.

In your hypothetical if I gave you a question like the one you possed
and you gave me the "ball park" answer my next question "might" be,
"if you wanted a more precise one how would you figure it out?" and
then that would go to the "computing" device...I would probably feel
it necessary (grin) to show you how to use an E6B if all you have is
an electronic one (kind of a whiz bang thing)...

I"ve done "part" of the oral in and around an airplane before...but I
dont like to. The environment is not controlled etc... It usually
doesnt do what I am trying to do and that is put the applicant at
"ease"...

Robert

Luke Skywalker writes:

In your hypothetical if I gave you a question like the one you possed
and you gave me the "ball park" answer my next question "might" be,
"if you wanted a more precise one how would you figure it out?" and
then that would go to the "computing" device...I would probably feel
it necessary (grin) to show you how to use an E6B if all you have is
an electronic one (kind of a whiz bang thing)...

I don't think that would be a problem. The ASA E6-B I bought is inexpensively
made, though, and it's really hard to turn the wheels; it would be a pain to
actually have to fumble with it in a cockpit.

A nice Pickett steel or bamboo circular slide rule would be ideal--one of the
rare situations in which a slide rule is probably superior to a calculator (no
electricity, extremely fast and easy to use, more than accurate enough for its
purpose, good at simplifying specific problems). Alas! Nobody seems to make
slide rules any more. I saw a few other circular slide rules at the pilot
store, but they all looked like the same thing in different materials,
although I didn't look that closely.

I"ve done "part" of the oral in and around an airplane before...but I
dont like to. The environment is not controlled etc... It usually
doesnt do what I am trying to do and that is put the applicant at
"ease"...

The only time I'm at ease during an exam is if I don't care if I pass.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Apr 9, 8:52 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Luke Skywalker writes:
In your hypothetical if I gave you a question like the one you possed
and you gave me the "ball park" answer my next question "might" be,
"if you wanted a more precise one how would you figure it out?" and
then that would go to the "computing" device...I would probably feel
it necessary (grin) to show you how to use an E6B if all you have is
an electronic one (kind of a whiz bang thing)...

I don't think that would be a problem. The ASA E6-B I bought is inexpensively
made, though, and it's really hard to turn the wheels; it would be a pain to
actually have to fumble with it in a cockpit.

A nice Pickett steel or bamboo circular slide rule would be ideal--one of the
rare situations in which a slide rule is probably superior to a calculator (no
electricity, extremely fast and easy to use, more than accurate enough for its
purpose, good at simplifying specific problems). Alas! Nobody seems to make
slide rules any more. I saw a few other circular slide rules at the pilot
store, but they all looked like the same thing in different materials,
although I didn't look that closely.

I"ve done "part" of the oral in and around an airplane before...but I
dont like to. The environment is not controlled etc... It usually
doesnt do what I am trying to do and that is put the applicant at
"ease"...

The only time I'm at ease during an exam is if I don't care if I pass.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

heh...

I would share three things with you.

First if your instructor sends you then most examiners assume that you
are going to pass...you might not buy this but your instructor has as
much on the line as 'you' do in an exam and few just toss a hail mary
pass...

Second what most examiners are looking for (there are some turds but
most are not) is competence and a good grasp of the subject. AS I
tell people "the only one who gives a perfect checkride is me" (humor
is good) and I am not looking for perfection but competence...I dont
want to see to many mistakes but I certianly woudl rather see someone
who made a mistake or answered something wrong and recognized it do a
bit of self correcting...then simply "hope" I didnt catch it or dont
care.

Third part of that look for competence is that the student "believes"
that they are competent and acts that way. I understand what you mean
by "at ease" so dont take this wrong...but my guard gets up if I see
someone who is not so confident in their ability to pass...There is an
old saying "people who think that they are going to fail usually
do"...

If your instructor sends you then sit back, do your best, learn from
it and you will be proud of the result. Dont think that the task is
all that difficult...I made it!

Robert

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:

snip

A nice Pickett steel or bamboo circular slide rule would be ideal--one of the
rare situations in which a slide rule is probably superior to a calculator (no
electricity, extremely fast and easy to use, more than accurate enough for its
purpose, good at simplifying specific problems). Alas! Nobody seems to make
slide rules any more. I saw a few other circular slide rules at the pilot
store, but they all looked like the same thing in different materials,
although I didn't look that closely.

An E6 is nothing more than a specialized circular slide rule.

Back before calculators, when slide rules were common, there were
specialized slide rules for all sorts of things.


--
Jim Pennino

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