VOR routes without VORs

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

But why would anyone do that unless you are talking about using GPS
to get from VOR to VOR?

That's what I'm talking about. I set the route up using VORs, but I actually
fly it by GPS. The GPS doesn't care if the VORs are actually in range,
because it just navigates to waypoints that are coincident with the VOR
locations. This means that I could be completely out of range of any of the
VORs and still navigate ... unless the GPS fails, in which case I'm out of
luck, since I can't tune the VORs if I'm out of range.

In your case, you would be out of luck.

A real pilot in a real airplane would simply continue to follow a
magnetic heading from the magnetic compass you don't understand or
trust until the next VOR came into range, or maybe climb to get a
better signal, or both.

That's why I wondered if it was cheating. If I understand correctly, then,
I'm not allowed to do this if I'm IFR (because I can't fall back on the VOR
receivers?), but I can do it if I'm VFR, at my own risk.

Don't even bother; you haven't a clue how IFR is filed or flown.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Apr 15, 6:35 pm, wrote:
A real pilot in a real airplane would simply continue to follow a
magnetic heading from the magnetic compass you don't understand or
trust until the next VOR came into range, or maybe climb to get a
better signal, or both.

That was a good response. Here in the NE you have to read the
Airport/Facility Directory carefully to see if a VOR has unusable
radials, especially at lower (3000' and below) altitudes.

Don't even bother; you haven't a clue how IFR is filed or flown.

Many lurkers are interested in the answers Mx gets. When you post
remarks like this one, it only harms _your_ reputation. It has no
effect on his, which is what it already is.

Cheers, Kev

"Kev" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 15, 6:35 pm, wrote:
A real pilot in a real airplane would simply continue to follow a
magnetic heading from the magnetic compass you don't understand or
trust until the next VOR came into range, or maybe climb to get a
better signal, or both.

That was a good response. Here in the NE you have to read the
Airport/Facility Directory carefully to see if a VOR has unusable
radials, especially at lower (3000' and below) altitudes.

Don't even bother; you haven't a clue how IFR is filed or flown.

Many lurkers are interested in the answers Mx gets. When you post
remarks like this one, it only harms _your_ reputation. It has no
effect on his, which is what it already is.

Cheers, Kev


I can assure you, opinions vary. If you have a question, post it yourself.

On Apr 15, 2:20 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
But why would anyone do that unless you are talking about using GPS
to get from VOR to VOR?

That's what I'm talking about. I set the route up using VORs, but I actually
fly it by GPS. The GPS doesn't care if the VORs are actually in range,
because it just navigates to waypoints that are coincident with the VOR
locations. This means that I could be completely out of range of any of the
VORs and still navigate ... unless the GPS fails, in which case I'm out of
luck, since I can't tune the VORs if I'm out of range.

That's why I wondered if it was cheating. If I understand correctly, then,
I'm not allowed to do this if I'm IFR (because I can't fall back on the VOR
receivers?), but I can do it if I'm VFR, at my own risk.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

This is something I'm interested in too. I've personally never had a
situation where I've had to file VOR to VOR when the VOR's I'm
planning on using are out of range, but I'm sure the possibility of
this condition exists. I either have a GPS, and file direct, or its a
short trip, and I only end up using one of the 3 or 4 VOR's in range
on my homsbase.

If I were in the situation, I'd just use one signal until it becomes
unusable, then just keep that heading until the next signal comes in.
As long as the winds are stable, and the "area of uncertainty" is
quick, I don't see it being too unsafe, especially in a radar
environment.

Oh, if only people would take these threads seriously...

buttman wrote:
On Apr 15, 2:20 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
But why would anyone do that unless you are talking about using GPS
to get from VOR to VOR?

That's what I'm talking about. I set the route up using VORs, but I actually
fly it by GPS. The GPS doesn't care if the VORs are actually in range,
because it just navigates to waypoints that are coincident with the VOR
locations. This means that I could be completely out of range of any of the
VORs and still navigate ... unless the GPS fails, in which case I'm out of
luck, since I can't tune the VORs if I'm out of range.

That's why I wondered if it was cheating. If I understand correctly, then,
I'm not allowed to do this if I'm IFR (because I can't fall back on the VOR
receivers?), but I can do it if I'm VFR, at my own risk.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

This is something I'm interested in too. I've personally never had a
situation where I've had to file VOR to VOR when the VOR's I'm
planning on using are out of range, but I'm sure the possibility of
this condition exists. I either have a GPS, and file direct, or its a
short trip, and I only end up using one of the 3 or 4 VOR's in range
on my homsbase.

If I were in the situation, I'd just use one signal until it becomes
unusable, then just keep that heading until the next signal comes in.
As long as the winds are stable, and the "area of uncertainty" is
quick, I don't see it being too unsafe, especially in a radar
environment.

Oh, if only people would take these threads seriously...

Why would it ever be unsafe?

If IFR someone is going to ask you what the hell you are doing if
you are too far off.

If VFR you look out the windows and compare what you see with the
sectional.

More to the point, is there anywhere in the US where you would get
assigned an altitude out of range of a VOR if you've filed VOR to VOR?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

writes:

If IFR someone is going to ask you what the hell you are doing if
you are too far off.

If anyone notices.

More to the point, is there anywhere in the US where you would get
assigned an altitude out of range of a VOR if you've filed VOR to VOR?

The lateral range is the question. I don't know if ATC verifies that all VORs
mentioned on the flight plan are in range when they should be.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

This is something I'm interested in too. I've personally never had a
situation where I've had to file VOR to VOR when the VOR's I'm
planning on using are out of range, but I'm sure the possibility of
this condition exists. I either have a GPS, and file direct, or its a
short trip, and I only end up using one of the 3 or 4 VOR's in range
on my homsbase.

If I were in the situation, I'd just use one signal until it becomes
unusable, then just keep that heading until the next signal comes in.
As long as the winds are stable, and the "area of uncertainty" is
quick, I don't see it being too unsafe, especially in a radar
environment.

Oh, if only people would take these threads seriously...

OK, I'll try, just this one last time... ;-)

Any Victor airway should be in range of the appropriate navaid(s) for all
altitudes from the MEA to the floor of the Jet-ways--I presume that would be
part of the definition. IIRC, from what I recall as a student pilot 20+
years ago, that would be MEA to about 19000 feet.

As you recall, I am not presently a pilot; but I can recommend a definitive
source of information: If you are in the USA, then link to
http://www.faasafety.gov/SPANS/default.aspx and enter your postal zip-code
and the radius within which you are willing to travel. That will give you a
list of FAA safety seminars in your area, and you can ask about this sort of
thing at any of the seminars intended for pilots--they also have seminars
for mechanics.

Obviously, you can also ask a qualified instructor; and, if you choose to
participate in the Wings program, you will have ample opportunity to do
both. Instructors, pilots, students, and wannabees frequently attend (so
you can also find an instructor) and controllers are normally present at
seminars of airport markings and at events specific to opperations at
particular airports.

That should give you a good source for correct and traceable information.

Peter

PS: I presume that other countries with a large presence of GA may also
have programs, although I also presume that some particuars vary wildly.

On Apr 15, 11:17 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Is it "cheating" or bad form or against regulations to plan a route based on
VORs and then fly it by GPS, particularly when the aircraft may be out of
range of the VORs at some point along its route?


what do you care? You don't, can't/won't fly.

Ever

Bertie