What's going on at Perry, SC Region 5N # 711 reporting

There is nothing inflammatory about "are these reports only for the
insiders - the racing elite who know the contest ID's?" Burts polite
suggestion of using pilots names is a good one that I among others
would really appreciate. I can't see any way to interpret it as a
complaint. Burt may not be a contest pilot but do you have any idea
how many contests he's crewed for, towed for, organized, or otherwise
promoted? There's probably a few contest pilots out there who started
out with him in the back seat too.

On second thought, maybe Burt is jealous of all the racing elite who
get all the glory. Yea, that must be it. All those years of
tirelessly crewing and training has really turned him into a cynical,
back stabbing know-it-all who has sunk to inflammatory rhetoric to get
his point across. Yup. That's Burt.

I can't wait to go to Marfa and kick his ass.

Matt Michael
contest ID WBY

On Apr 22, 8:05 pm, wrote:
There is nothing inflammatory about "are these reports only for the
insiders - the racing elite who know the contest ID's?" Burts polite
suggestion of using pilots names is a good one that I among others
would really appreciate. I can't see any way to interpret it as a
complaint. Burt may not be a contest pilot but do you have any idea
how many contests he's crewed for, towed for, organized, or otherwise
promoted? There's probably a few contest pilots out there who started
out with him in the back seat too.

On second thought, maybe Burt is jealous of all the racing elite who
get all the glory. Yea, that must be it. All those years of
tirelessly crewing and training has really turned him into a cynical,
back stabbing know-it-all who has sunk to inflammatory rhetoric to get
his point across. Yup. That's Burt.

I can't wait to go to Marfa and kick his ass.

Matt Michael
contest ID WBY

How many people would really recognize the name of the pilot? There
are so few names that people know out of their own soaring club that
it doesn't really matter the name or the contest ID. If you know the
person then you will know the ID and if you don't know the person it
does not matter if you say the name or ID you still will not know.

The only reason the topic has gone on so long and anybody cares is
Burt posted a PRIVATE reply. The reason for PRIVATE replies is so you
can reply in PRIVATE and the world doesn't see it. Someone said
"names" would be better for the "newbie's" so you go and put a PRIVATE
reply out in public for the "newbie's" to read. There is already so
much bull**** people post and "newbie's" read, lets go argue on
something that does not need to be changed and if was changed would
give you absolutely no more useful information.

If you want a "FREE" something different, than do it yourself.

GO "711"

Fly fast, Pull hard

I just came across this thread. At the risk of offending everyone:

1. I didn't see anything derogatory in Burt Compton's email to Tom
Kelley. I might have used slightly different words but...
2. Tom's response to Burt was uncalled for, even in a private email. I
agree with Casey Lenox that I have not heard contest pilots put down
non-contest pilots...but Tom's "go play instructor" is definitely a
written put down.
3. Publishing a private email this way is generally wrong, and Burt
shouldn't have done it, however offended he was. I agree, though, that
Tom's sentiments reinforce the negative stereotype of contest pilots.
4. I've been flying competitively since 1968 but I don't know all the
names today, much less the IDs. The top guys who've kept the same #s
for years are familiar to many non-contest pilots; e.g., KS, DJ, XX.
But I remember when Karl Striedieck and Doug Jacobs both flew under
different #s, and all three of those guys have flown borrowed gliders
with totally different IDs. I agree names would help and the request
was a reasonable one to consider. In his defense, Burt (who's probably
been around soaring at least as long as I have) did close with a note
of appreciation for Tom.

So there's some blame to go around. How about we end this thread with
"Tom, great job on the reporting; your audience would likely be even
larger if you used names of all pilots, but we understand it takes
time to hammer these things out" and "Burt, we appreciate the great
work you've done for soaring over the years and hope you continue to
be a tireless promoter of it so the few of us in this country who
enjoy it can do so in the future."

And now that the weather has finally broken, maybe we can get back to
flying and avoid this stuff for a few months.

Chip Bearden
JB
New Jersey, USA

It does seem that there generally is a presumption that something in an
email conversation will not be revealed to the public. However, in
Burt's defense, is there the same presumption when you send someone an
unsolicited rude email?



Chip Bearden wrote:
I just came across this thread. At the risk of offending everyone:

1. I didn't see anything derogatory in Burt Compton's email to Tom
Kelley. I might have used slightly different words but...
2. Tom's response to Burt was uncalled for, even in a private email. I
agree with Casey Lenox that I have not heard contest pilots put down
non-contest pilots...but Tom's "go play instructor" is definitely a
written put down.
3. Publishing a private email this way is generally wrong, and Burt
shouldn't have done it, however offended he was. I agree, though, that
Tom's sentiments reinforce the negative stereotype of contest pilots.
4. I've been flying competitively since 1968 but I don't know all the
names today, much less the IDs. The top guys who've kept the same #s
for years are familiar to many non-contest pilots; e.g., KS, DJ, XX.
But I remember when Karl Striedieck and Doug Jacobs both flew under
different #s, and all three of those guys have flown borrowed gliders
with totally different IDs. I agree names would help and the request
was a reasonable one to consider. In his defense, Burt (who's probably
been around soaring at least as long as I have) did close with a note
of appreciation for Tom.

So there's some blame to go around. How about we end this thread with
"Tom, great job on the reporting; your audience would likely be even
larger if you used names of all pilots, but we understand it takes
time to hammer these things out" and "Burt, we appreciate the great
work you've done for soaring over the years and hope you continue to
be a tireless promoter of it so the few of us in this country who
enjoy it can do so in the future."

And now that the weather has finally broken, maybe we can get back to
flying and avoid this stuff for a few months.

Chip Bearden
JB
New Jersey, USA

I would like to know the names of the folks racing too.
It sounded like a good suggestion to me. Opens up the racing landscape to
others.

But maybe that's not the idea when it comes to soaring competition.
I guess I'll find out when I start racing.

Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
Tom (711),

How about giving the names of the pilots rather than only their
contest ID - makes it more interesting for folks on the sidelines of
racing reading your reports, or are these reports only for the
insiders - the racing elite who know the contest ID's? I hope not,
and I bet you're using the ID's for brevity, but it sure takes away
the personal touch.

Appreciate your reports - good to get the straight scoop fast.

Burt
Marfa

On Apr 18, 12:33�pm, wrote:
Today, Wednesday, April 18th, has been xcelled due to weather. We had
a pilots meeting this morning at 10:30 am, and the daily winners from
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
to chicken on a beer and a great airshow by Gary Ward.
DJ wins first day in Sports, LBL Standard, and W3 18 Meter. All
is CD, SZ took over as weatherman, thanks SZ as QV went back
north to be with a friend. Also, KS went north, as did HW, But HW
cameback and gave us a report on our friend, Dale Kramer. We were told
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]

Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe # 711 reporting.

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

Absolutely! Delete it, reply to it, or keep it for posterity, but do
NOT post it to a public news group without permission of the author.



BTW, this was not an "unsolicited" rude email. Correct or not, Tom felt
he had been wrongly criticized by Burt. He wrote him an obviously
impassioned _private_ response. I think that was the appropriate
course. That is where it should have stayed... private!



My $0.02.



Larry Goddard

"01" USA

"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
:

It does seem that there generally is a presumption that something in an
email conversation will not be revealed to the public. However, in
Burt's defense, is there the same presumption when you send someone an
unsolicited rude email?



Chip Bearden wrote:
I just came across this thread. At the risk of offending everyone:

1. I didn't see anything derogatory in Burt Compton's email to Tom
Kelley. I might have used slightly different words but...
2. Tom's response to Burt was uncalled for, even in a private email. I
agree with Casey Lenox that I have not heard contest pilots put down
non-contest pilots...but Tom's "go play instructor" is definitely a
written put down.
3. Publishing a private email this way is generally wrong, and Burt
shouldn't have done it, however offended he was. I agree, though, that
Tom's sentiments reinforce the negative stereotype of contest pilots.
4. I've been flying competitively since 1968 but I don't know all the
names today, much less the IDs. The top guys who've kept the same #s
for years are familiar to many non-contest pilots; e.g., KS, DJ, XX.
But I remember when Karl Striedieck and Doug Jacobs both flew under
different #s, and all three of those guys have flown borrowed gliders
with totally different IDs. I agree names would help and the request
was a reasonable one to consider. In his defense, Burt (who's probably
been around soaring at least as long as I have) did close with a note
of appreciation for Tom.

So there's some blame to go around. How about we end this thread with
"Tom, great job on the reporting; your audience would likely be even
larger if you used names of all pilots, but we understand it takes
time to hammer these things out" and "Burt, we appreciate the great
work you've done for soaring over the years and hope you continue to
be a tireless promoter of it so the few of us in this country who
enjoy it can do so in the future."

And now that the weather has finally broken, maybe we can get back to
flying and avoid this stuff for a few months.

Chip Bearden
JB
New Jersey, USA

On Apr 24, 3:55 pm, Chip Bearden wrote:
I just came across this thread. At the risk of offending everyone:

1. I didn't see anything derogatory in Burt Compton's email to Tom
Kelley. I might have used slightly different words but...
2. Tom's response to Burt was uncalled for, even in a private email. I
agree with Casey Lenox that I have not heard contest pilots put down
non-contest pilots...but Tom's "go play instructor" is definitely a
written put down.
3. Publishing a private email this way is generally wrong, and Burt
shouldn't have done it, however offended he was. I agree, though, that
Tom's sentiments reinforce the negative stereotype of contest pilots.
4. I've been flying competitively since 1968 but I don't know all the
names today, much less the IDs. The top guys who've kept the same #s
for years are familiar to many non-contest pilots; e.g., KS, DJ, XX.
But I remember when Karl Striedieck and Doug Jacobs both flew under
different #s, and all three of those guys have flown borrowed gliders
with totally different IDs. I agree names would help and the request
was a reasonable one to consider. In his defense, Burt (who's probably
been around soaring at least as long as I have) did close with a note
of appreciation for Tom.

So there's some blame to go around. How about we end this thread with
"Tom, great job on the reporting; your audience would likely be even
larger if you used names of all pilots, but we understand it takes
time to hammer these things out" and "Burt, we appreciate the great
work you've done for soaring over the years and hope you continue to
be a tireless promoter of it so the few of us in this country who
enjoy it can do so in the future."

And now that the weather has finally broken, maybe we can get back to
flying and avoid this stuff for a few months.

Chip Bearden
JB
New Jersey, USA

Right on chip!

MM
WBY

1. I didn't see anything derogatory in Burt Compton's email to Tom
Kelley. I might have used slightly different words but...


We might have to agree to disagree at this point:

"or are these reports only for the insiders - the racing elite who
know the contest ID's?"

We should all remember that anyone who criticizes, or even critiques a
volunteer, especially in a public forum, is liable to "irritate" both
that volunteer and other potential volunteers. There's little to be
gained, and much to be lost.

Jay
R6

Jay Pokorski wrote:

We should all remember that anyone who criticizes, or even critiques a
volunteer, especially in a public forum, is liable to "irritate" both
that volunteer and other potential volunteers. There's little to be
gained, and much to be lost.

And the reader can almost always reasonably choose a benevolent or
malevolent interpretation. That is a well-known characteristic of
USENET/eMail.

There must be responsibility on both sides of the dialog.


Jack