BD-5 crash in Australia

"RapidRonnie" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 21, 8:12 am, "Wayne Paul" wrote:

My guess is that the "spinal injuries" occured on impact. The BD-5's
cockpit design offers little to no pilot protection.

Jim Bede openly felt that was unnecessary because most BD-5s would
never fly or if they did would either only fly a few hours and be
junked when the owner died or would crash so badly it would make
little difference how he built it.

I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness
effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs
though.


It wasn't my attempt to imply the crashworthiness of the BD-5 is less then
other homebuilts. It was simply to affirm the primary spinal injury was
caused by the impact. I am sure my HP-14 sailplane isn't much better. I
too, for all practical purposes, am sitting directly on the belly skin.
(http://www.soaridaho.com/photogaller.../17900_MSL.jpg)
(http://tinyurl.com/2esvov)

I am sure a gear-up hard landing would not be good for my previousely
injured spine.

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/

RapidRonnie wrote:
I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness
effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs
though.


The one guy I know of to crash an RV hit a large concrete block and flipped completely
over. He broke the canopy open and crawled out with minor injuries. The airplane (RV-6A)
was essentially a total writeoff though.

Unfortunately, he died of a heart attack a couple years ago.

As far as extracting someone from a wreck, I was taught to never move someone unless they
are in some other form of imminent danger (the most common example given was a burning
vehicle).

Bob Martin wrote:
RapidRonnie wrote:
I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness
effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs
though.


The one guy I know of to crash an RV hit a large concrete block and
flipped completely over. He broke the canopy open and crawled out with
minor injuries. The airplane (RV-6A) was essentially a total writeoff
though.

Unfortunately, he died of a heart attack a couple years ago.

As far as extracting someone from a wreck, I was taught to never move
someone unless they are in some other form of imminent danger (the most
common example given was a burning vehicle).

Right on, and one other thing that is relevant, if loss of life isn't
imminent, burns will heal, a severed spinal cord probably won't. That is
why accident rescues should be left to professionals, not bystanders.
But then hindsight is easy to use, forsight is almost impossible, and
the current situation almost always seems more critical than it is.

YMMV

Back to lurking.

George

On Mon, 21 May 2007 07:12:12 -0600, "Wayne Paul"
wrote:


"George" wrote in message
et...
After the pics of how he was extricated I think we can explain the "spinal
injuries."

George

And exactly how would you have extracted him the small cockpit of a burning
BD-5? Jaws of death after the fire was out? Wait for a hoist?

My guess is that the "spinal injuries" occured on impact. The BD-5's
cockpit design offers little to no pilot protection.



I dont wish to pursue this but I believe that the spinal injury had
occurred before pulling him out of the cockpit.

....so now when you guys endlessly flame yawn for not flying his bd5
consider the reality and risks that he faces.

engine was a turbocharged honda auto engine of about 100hp.
wings had modern aerodynamics.
in the BD5-a,b,c,d lineage it was probably a BD5-q with all the mods
onboard.

I'm off in to see him.

Stealth Pilot

Richard Riley wrote:

On Tue, 22 May 2007 14:23:09 +0800, Stealth Pilot
wrote:


...so now when you guys endlessly flame yawn for not flying his bd5
consider the reality and risks that he faces.

I think the reason yawn is flamed isn't that he won't fly his BD5.
Rather, it's that he continues to flog the BD5 as wonderful, easy to
fly, totally evolved, beyond all it's early problems and better than
competitors like the Vari Eze or KR1.

And THEN he won't fly his own.

My prayers for your friend.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

To reinforce the above fact that
Yawn is his own worst enemy...

He also belittled the Vans RV-3 as being less safe than the BD-5.

I don't recall the particulars, but Yawn stated in this ng that
the Van's RV-3 was a death trap, I was quite stupid and
would shortly be very dead for flying one.

That was probably 7 years and 700 RV-3 hours ago.

IMO, Yawn is nothing more than a megalomaniacal
loud mouth confrontational coward. All hat and
no cattle.....


Barnyard Cropduster BOb - 53 years of powered flight

In article , Barnyard BOb says...

...so now when you guys endlessly flame yawn for not flying his bd5
consider the reality and risks that he faces.

I think the reason yawn is flamed isn't that he won't fly his BD5.
Rather, it's that he continues to flog the BD5 as wonderful, easy to
fly, totally evolved, beyond all it's early problems and better than
competitors like the Vari Eze or KR1.

And THEN he won't fly his own.

My prayers for your friend.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

To reinforce the above fact that
Yawn is his own worst enemy...

He also belittled the Vans RV-3 as being less safe than the BD-5.

I don't recall the particulars, but Yawn stated in this ng that
the Van's RV-3 was a death trap, I was quite stupid and
would shortly be very dead for flying one.

That was probably 7 years and 700 RV-3 hours ago.

IMO, Yawn is nothing more than a megalomaniacal
loud mouth confrontational coward. All hat and
no cattle.....

I can imagine if this incident happened in my design. Jaun would be all over me
blaming me for what happened.Funny there's never a peep out of him when a BD is
involved.

Unfortunately sometimes bad things happen in this game of experimental flying
and a lot of times it's just bad luck.Sounds like that's the case here in the
BD-5 incident.From what I read he was on the ground with the engine running for
a longer time then normal and possibly the internal cowling temps got higher
then usual causing the possible vapor lock. That can be remedied now that the
problem is identified.

The bad luck is that the engine ran just long enough to put the pilot into a
very bad spot.Good luck would have the engine quit during T/O with room to stop
or better yet on the run up.No blame here just bad luck.

My best wishes to the pilot and I pray for his complete recovery.The fact that
he's recovering feeling in his feet is a very good sign.Good luck to all.

Chuck S

On Mon, 21 May 2007 10:32:49 GMT, Doug Gray
wrote:


http://www.thewest.com.au/default.as...ontentID=29246

it probably sounds as though I have some emotion about george's posts.
I dont. I just have little time to post at present.

peter is truely amazed that the story reached america.
the video footage was taken by a 17 year old enthusiast evidently.

I did ask tonight as to what they thought was the cause.

the BD5 has a turbocharged honda auto engine with augmenting electric
cooling fan to the radiator. it is fuel injected. a beautiful
installation.
propeller drive shaft is fitted with an override clutch (sprag clutch)
the takeoff was after a long taxi and surrounding aircraft made the
ambient noise level a little higher than usual.
they think that the long time on the ground may have exposed a heat
problem in the fuel supply which induced a bubble (or bubbles) of air
in the fuel delivery. just after takeoff and after the wheels were up
the bubbles in the fuel hit the engine and stopped it. with an
override clutch the prop and drive train continue rotating and making
noise and the absense of the engine noise was imperceptible in the
ambient noise around him.
peter only became aware of the stopped engine after a scan of the
instruments and tacho by which time much of the aircraft's momentum
had been lost although he had started to effect a glide recovery.
the aircraft impacted the ground before he could effect a restart.

the glitch occurred right at the critical period before full cruise
climb speed had been achieved.

my observation is that bd-5's with sprag clutches in the drive trains
need a fadec system that understands that the engine is required to be
delivering power and can effect an immediate autorestart whenever
rpm's cease. such are the perfections of 20-20 hindsight.

the good news from tonight is that he has some feeling in his legs.

damn! we lost one of the neatest little aircraft on the airfield.
Stealth Pilot

Stealth,

Sorry if my original comment hit anywhere near a nerve. It was a fairly
innocent comment about what the pics showed and had no malice intended
for anyone. But look what it grew to?

My prayers too are with your friend.

Pics can reveal only so much,and also a news write up, your final
explanation, more of a first hand revelation, revealed a lot more,
thanks for answering so even handedly, which some don't do.

All the best,

George

"Stealth Pilot" wrote

the good news from tonight is that he has some feeling in his legs.

THAT is good news, indeed.
--
Jim in NC