What I wanted Piper Ceo Bass to say...

How? Mooney and Columbia are faster than your number, all modern
airframes are way more comfortable.

I'm with you on Columbia -- but MOONEY?

It never was that leader, it never will be.

From the 1940s through the 1960s, more pilots trained in the Piper Cub
than any other aircraft. (And, yeah, I know Piper bought the design
from Taylor -- but so what? Every plane has a designer.)

One word: Ethanol.

Yep, ethanol pollution will be the death of the mogas STC. But not
yet!

Clean up all you want, you're just not going to get there.

Why? The Cherokee airframe is draggy in many obvious ways. The
fact that Atlas has so many STC'd speed mods on him makes it easy to
see them.


Today I am announcing that we will be
incorporating flush rivets and a special metal-bonding technology
throughout the airframe.

And there you go into a new certification.

Hey, I can dream, can't I?

This extra power, combined with all the new airframe
enhancements, will make the Arrow truly competitive with Cirrus and
Columbia, and will absolutely blow away anything Cessna makes today.

Uhm, no.

What would Cessna have to offer in competition?

Finally -- and this is the one you've ALL been longing to hear, for
many years -- the new Arrow V will incorporate TWO cabin doors,
allowing for easy access and egress.

Ah, new certification, again.

Oh, well. Piper is spending $100 million on the very speculative
"PiperJet". I wish them well.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
Ladies & Gentlemen of the Cherokee Pilots Association:

Thank you for inviting me to speak at your fly-in. I am honored to
appear before Pipers' most loyal and active customers, and have some
great news for you today.


Piper's sleek new diesel lineup


Paul-Mont
http://www.ionaircraft.com/
Hell, I'm looking forward to ION's sleek new diesel lineup! g

Test flight .....berry, berry, berry soon.

"Jose" wrote in message t...
If you read my "Gloom" post, you know what the CEO of Piper told us at
the Cherokee Pilots Association annual convention last weekend.

This is what I wanted him to say: [...]
First, I am pleased to announce the introduction of the plane you've
all been waiting for -- the new Arrow V. This plane will be powered
by the Lycoming O-540 engine, have a range of over 1000 nautical
miles, and will cruise at 185 knots [much droolable stuff snipped]
....
Okay, enough speechifying -- I'd like to open it up for questioning
now...who's first?"

Are the rumors that we can buy this plane for under $65,000 true? With the full avionics package with weather and
deice in the brochure?

Jose
--


And a 10 year subscription to XM radio

Jay, I really have to disagree with most of that. As usual, Piper is
behind the development curve. I don't know if they even possess the
engineering skill to get their new jet off the ground, and even if
they do, they will be about 10th in line with VLJs. When was the last
time they put a truly new product on the market? The Comanche was a
fine product, but it should have come 5 years earlier.

If they bet the company on the VLJ, I think they are truly done for
unless they are lucky enough to get absorbed into something larger.

I have an Arrow, and it's about the last airframe I'd want to add a
300hp engine to. It's a good airplane the way it is, but there is
just no point in trying to stay in business by adding a 50 year old
Lycosaurus (carbureted, too!!!) to a 40 year old airframe. Along
similar lines, I think Lycoming is ultimately done for as well;
they've lost the ability to control their quality. Sure, they have
added roller tappets or whatever to the 360 - big deal, when they
should have started with a clean sheet 15 years ago. Thielert and SMA
will ultimately eat their lunch as soon as Cirrus starts selling with
diesel power in their slick, comfortable airframe.

The current industry needs vision, not hindsight.

("Paul kgyy" wrote)
Thielert and SMA will ultimately eat their lunch as soon as Cirrus starts
selling with diesel power in their slick, comfortable airframe.


SMA doesn't look like they have their ducks in a row, yet.

Thielert: I'm taking a wait and see, for now.
(I do hope they develop a reputation out of the box that's ...positive)

http://www.dieselair.com/
Fun site ....much reading.


Paul-Mont

Jay,

How? Mooney and Columbia are faster than your number, all modern
airframes are way more comfortable.

I'm with you on Columbia -- but MOONEY?

The Acclaim is faster. I didn't mention Mooney in relation to comfort.
Couldn't. Wouldn't. ;-)

From the 1940s through the 1960s, more pilots trained in the Piper Cub
than any other aircraft.

Ok, I guess.

Why? The Cherokee airframe is draggy in many obvious ways.

Yes, but it is not obvious how to get rid of the drag without building a
new plane.

And there you go into a new certification.

Hey, I can dream, can't I?

Not that much, if you're trying to write a quasi-realistic speech for
Bass.

Uhm, no.

What would Cessna have to offer in competition?

The NGP.

I'd really like your comment on the sales numbers. When I looked them up
at GAMA, I was kind of shocked to see how low they were. 5 (!) Arrows sold
in all of 2006! Piper is even more dead than I thought.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Montblack,

SMA doesn't look like they have their ducks in a row, yet.

Fully agree. I doubt they will ever get there.

Thielert: I'm taking a wait and see, for now.
(I do hope they develop a reputation out of the box that's ...positive)

Hope so, too. However, some things have me worried. For example, when Diamond
announced the DA-50 at Aero, they said it would be available with a Diesel
from Diamond (!) which is already in development. Why would Diamond turn away
from Thielert which they are already using on the 40 and 42? Worrysome, IMHO.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Hope so, too. However, some things have me worried. For example, when
Diamond
announced the DA-50 at Aero, they said it would be available with a Diesel
from Diamond (!) which is already in development. Why would Diamond turn away
from Thielert which they are already using on the 40 and 42? Worrysome, IMHO.

Because Thielert is totally dependent upon Mercedes to provide them with
engines.

I'd really like your comment on the sales numbers. When I looked them up
at GAMA, I was kind of shocked to see how low they were. 5 (!) Arrows sold
in all of 2006! Piper is even more dead than I thought.

Yeah, it's awful. But then, the Arrow (in my opinion) is a plane
without a mission. It's underpowered and slow for a retractable, and
nowadays you can go faster in a Cirrus without the expense of folding
gear.

Put an O-540 in it, though, and look out. I think it would be a real
ass-kicker.

What's amazing (to me), given those sales numbers, is that Bass was
trumpeting how they've increased their workforce in Vero Beach
tremendously (I don't remember the exact number, but it was something
like 40%). I guess they must be building Meridians and Saratogas?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

John,

Because Thielert is totally dependent upon Mercedes to provide them with
engines.


That can't be it. For two reasons:

1. The thing that Diamond allegedly has in development is based on an
automotive engine, too. In fact, I once read an article by Thielert where
he makes the calculation for developing an aircraft piston engine from
scratch vs. based on a car engine - and there's just no way you can break
even if you start from scratch these days.

2. Mercedes's output is so high that even if they quit making an engine
Thielert needs, it would be no problem at all for them to buy 20 years
worth of supply right before Merc shuts the production line down. The car
manufacturing numbers just are that much bigger. Our market is tiny.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)