Parowan Contest

Probably everyone that responded to this has kids. Many, like mine,
are probably grown and gone off on their own. My kids weren't always
angels, but they were pretty good kids. Disruptive at times? You bet.
The fact is, at a sailplane contest, or just our at the glider club,
they get bored. If they're inventive, they'll figure out a way to work
through that, sometimes loudly. That's just kids being kids. If you
don't like that - and by the way, your kids did it too if you were
lucky enough to have kids - then tactfully find their parent and ask
them to corral their children. The closest I ever came to kicking the
crap out of anyone at the airport was over an adult being totally rude
to one of my kids, who was doing nothing wrong at the time, and wasn't
being loud or disruptive. It's a shame I didn't go ahead.

I started going to the gliderport 45 years ago. I was 10. I remember
names and faces of some really nice people. I remember the jerks, too.
I came back to soaring in spite of the cross, whiney old grandmas that
were around in those days. I wonder if these kids will... And... yes,
most of the people around soaring are really nice, whether some of you
think so or not. But like the original poster, I have no built in crew
because of one ot two self-serving jerks that were rude at the
gliderport.

Jack Womack

What the attendees of the contest refused to believe while there was
that the contest staff had to run the retrieve office out of the
hangar that all the crew thought was the "party zone". We had
incredible difficulty hearing the radios, hearing the landouts, and
couldn't even hear the cell phones, when a pilot landed out. The only
time I remember being stern about the noise level was with older
kids. The younger ones don't know any better, and can't help being
bored and having energy to burn at contests. Anyway, just wanted to
let everyone know that when you see landing cards spread out with
radios and cell phones, that means that contest safety is paramount,
before anything else!
Thanks
Micki Minner

Well I can relate to both ends of this thread.

On the one hand, I was there with my two kids who were
attending their first contest. On the other hand I
had a landout on Day 3 and had a terrible time getting
through to the retrieve office. Cell phone coverage
in the Parowan task area is spotty and I called a dozen
times using a borrowed cellphone - the connection never
lasted more then 10 seconds.

The retreive office was set up in the hangar where
pilots meetings were held. It was the only shaded space
of any size that was available. As such it became a
magnet for folks trying to beat the heat - including
kids - including my kids. I got more than one stern
comment myself from retrieve office volonteers who
were trying to hear instructions from downed pilots.
I felt terrible that I was standing between a pilot
and his retrieve. If someone was a bit sharp about
the ambient noise, I'm sure it was mostly under the
strain of trying to get pilots accounted for. Perhaps
it wasn't understood by everyone in attendance what
the retrieve office does or the challenges they faced
in this contest.

Hopefully we can all be a bit empathetic. Soaring contests
are not all that engaging for those on the ground -
particularly since the start and finish gates have
gone. Kids will be kids and seek some self-entertainment,
but the work of contests goes on for the unthanked
volonteers who make sure we get launched and home every
day.

Andy Blackburn
9B

At 23:48 09 July 2007, Mickiminner wrote:
What the attendees of the contest refused to believe
while there was
that the contest staff had to run the retrieve office
out of the
hangar that all the crew thought was the 'party zone'.
We had
incredible difficulty hearing the radios, hearing the
landouts, and
couldn't even hear the cell phones, when a pilot landed
out. The only
time I remember being stern about the noise level was
with older
kids. The younger ones don't know any better, and
can't help being
bored and having energy to burn at contests. Anyway,
just wanted to
let everyone know that when you see landing cards spread
out with
radios and cell phones, that means that contest safety
is paramount,
before anything else!
Thanks
Micki Minner

MickiMinner wrote:
What the attendees of the contest refused to believe while there was
that the contest staff had to run the retrieve office out of the
hangar that all the crew thought was the "party zone". We had
incredible difficulty hearing the radios, hearing the landouts, and
couldn't even hear the cell phones, when a pilot landed out. The only
time I remember being stern about the noise level was with older
kids. The younger ones don't know any better, and can't help being
bored and having energy to burn at contests. Anyway, just wanted to
let everyone know that when you see landing cards spread out with
radios and cell phones, that means that contest safety is paramount,
before anything else!
Thanks
Micki Minner


Hi Micki
I agree with you about safety and consideration.

On the cell phone safety side - voice requires a higher quality and real time
continuous connection. In places where reception is poor you will struggle,
especially where there is very little available bandwidth or lots of signal
attenuation. Add some contention, where suddenly a number of folk are trying to
use the trickle of bandwidth available, and it all falls apart. Conversely
SMS/text messages require a fraction of the bandwidth, are tolerant of far lower
signal quality and will send asynchronously - Press "send" and it will keep
trying till your handset gets a receipt from a tower.
I would encourage anyone relying on cellular service to use SMS first.
"CN down LAT LON damage/no damage" is easy - especially if you save a draft with
the details except for the finer LAT and LON. Make a draft that matches your
landing card. That way you know the pilot has the best chance of getting a
message in. If he/she manages to get a voice call in with details all the
better, but there will probably be lots of time to peck the details out on the
cell... Similarly replying with a pre-created message with "Retrieve departed
HH:MM" is quick and easy - and you know it has the best chance of reaching the
pilot.

On the noise and distraction side - I am very sensitive to noise, it's one
reason I prefer sailplanes to power flying. So I do empathize with noise induced
stress.

Maybe the whole argument here is one of being specific rather than general -
kids have a strong sense of justice. Nothing offends a child (or parent as you
have seen) as much as unjustified criticism. The question is not whether it is
acceptable to have noise and distraction. Some degree of disruption is
unavoidable, especially if there is only one habitable place. But my experience
is again that with a little planning and effort it is possible to make it a good
experience for all. If you can't avoid close proximity to kids, then give them
and their parents a briefing on consideration and safety. Having someone
responsible for horde management works. When you need the peace, a person
delegated by the contest office gets to direct activities so that they don't
cause problems. If this person is involved, he/she will know when to intervene
and when to let the party go, and have the authority to manage the disruptive
ones. If the crew were the problem, then there is a problem, because they should
understand that their actions directly affect the wellbeing of the person they
crew for. I would be most surprised if they failed to respond to some formal -
"this is how we have to behave" talk.

As a partially reformed sinner I can vouch that yelling over your shoulder does
nothing except offend the innocent.

Just my opinion - worth every cent you paid for it...

Bruce

Hmmm, the kids got energized after the barbeque, so it probably wasn't a
retrieve office issue as many of the peacemakers are suggesting. No, sad to
say, this sport is chock full of grumpy old white men, who open their
anxiety closets once, twice, or three times each year at soaring contests.
Happily, most are polite geezers and will yield the field to the young and
exuberant rather than make a scene. But, alas, some are simply without
grace.

Now that I think of it, they're not unlike the kids, too tied up in their
own little swirl of emotions to think much about their actions.
Unfortunately, their parents aren't usually in attendance to check them
before they run amuck, and most lack the charm of innocence.

But what's this... "individuals..." in the plural? A chorus sings out "Keep
those kids quiet!"

Your wife is right to stay away, but she doesn't know the half of it. That
last thing you want is to have your kids witness a 60-year-old self-made,
self-important, 21st Century renaissance man in the throes of a flight-line
tantrum because his crew did something wrong with/to/on his $130K glider.

Some contest sites are more kid friendly than others. Some contest officials
and contestants more skilled at managing a mob of energetic children. Sounds
like you happened on the lower left quadrant that particular evening in
Parowan.

Opossum Chef





"JMR" wrote in message
ups.com...
I flew two days with Karl Streidick in the back of his Duo Discus.
Simply put, it was nothing short of amazing. Funny thing, there was no
magic pixie dust, or voodoo magic, just simple thermal efficiency and
energy management. Oh yeah, he doesn't use a PDA or any of that fancy
software to get himself around the course. It's, get off tow, climb
until start gate is open, start, point nose in direction of first
point and GO!! Thermals were great, even though it was blue skies both
days for us, and we routinely saw 17k while out on course. Truely an
amazing and informative experience. Too bad my experience was marred
by some very rude contest pilots.
I had my family( wife + 3 young kids) join me on this trip so that I
could show my wife that contest flying could be a family event. The
dinner after the practice day my family joined me and then took the
kids away for the pilots meeting. I thought that was very courteous.
The next day, once again the family joined me for the BBQ. As the
eating began to wind down my kids, along with a couple of other kids,
had some energy to burn and were playing around in the hangar. Yes,
they may have been playing a little loud, but nothing ridiculous.
Unfortunately, some individuals decided to yell "keep those kids
quiet!" Whether or not they were joking, I don't care. My wife was so
embarrased she was ****ed at me for days for bringing her and the
kids. People, guys like me and our families are the future of this
sport, if you can't put up with a little youthful banter, SHUT UP and
go somewhere else. Otherwise, take it up with me personally!!!
Justin Rizor
way into the future contest racer--- with the kids, not sure about the
wife :0)

I witnessed the pleas from the retrieve 'office' for
quiet. It was far more often directed at adults (pilots
actually) than kids. It was also generally justified
and not unduly harsh.

We attended nearly all the barbecue events and I missed
the chorus of 'grumpy old men' on Sunday. That one
I can't explain. We generally had a fine time and kids
were allowed to be kids - the fireworks on the 4th
in particular were of a far more enjoyable variety.

9B

At 14:48 10 July 2007, User wrote:
Hmmm, the kids got energized after the barbeque, so
it probably wasn't a
retrieve office issue as many of the peacemakers are
suggesting. No, sad to
say, this sport is chock full of grumpy old white men,
who open their
anxiety closets once, twice, or three times each year
at soaring contests.
Happily, most are polite geezers and will yield the
field to the young and
exuberant rather than make a scene. But, alas, some
are simply without
grace.

Now that I think of it, they're not unlike the kids,
too tied up in their
own little swirl of emotions to think much about their
actions.
Unfortunately, their parents aren't usually in attendance
to check them
before they run amuck, and most lack the charm of innocence.

But what's this... 'individuals...' in the plural?
A chorus sings out 'Keep
those kids quiet!'

Your wife is right to stay away, but she doesn't know
the half of it. That
last thing you want is to have your kids witness a
60-year-old self-made,
self-important, 21st Century renaissance man in the
throes of a flight-line
tantrum because his crew did something wrong with/to/on
his $130K glider.

Some contest sites are more kid friendly than others.
Some contest officials
and contestants more skilled at managing a mob of energetic
children. Sounds
like you happened on the lower left quadrant that particular
evening in
Parowan.

Opossum Chef





'JMR' wrote in message
oups.com...
I flew two days with Karl Streidick in the back of
his Duo Discus.
Simply put, it was nothing short of amazing. Funny
thing, there was no
magic pixie dust, or voodoo magic, just simple thermal
efficiency and
energy management. Oh yeah, he doesn't use a PDA or
any of that fancy
software to get himself around the course. It's, get
off tow, climb
until start gate is open, start, point nose in direction
of first
point and GO!! Thermals were great, even though it
was blue skies both
days for us, and we routinely saw 17k while out on
course. Truely an
amazing and informative experience. Too bad my experience
was marred
by some very rude contest pilots.
I had my family( wife + 3 young kids) join me on this
trip so that I
could show my wife that contest flying could be a
family event. The
dinner after the practice day my family joined me
and then took the
kids away for the pilots meeting. I thought that was
very courteous.
The next day, once again the family joined me for
the BBQ. As the
eating began to wind down my kids, along with a couple
of other kids,
had some energy to burn and were playing around in
the hangar. Yes,
they may have been playing a little loud, but nothing
ridiculous.
Unfortunately, some individuals decided to yell 'keep
those kids
quiet!' Whether or not they were joking, I don't care.
My wife was so
embarrased she was ****ed at me for days for bringing
her and the
kids. People, guys like me and our families are the
future of this
sport, if you can't put up with a little youthful
banter, SHUT UP and
go somewhere else. Otherwise, take it up with me personally!!!
Justin Rizor
way into the future contest racer--- with the kids,
not sure about the
wife :0)

That last thing you want is to have your kids witness
a 60-year-old self-made, self-important, 21st Century
renaissance man in the throes of a flight-line tantrum
because his crew did something wrong with/to/on his
$130K glider.


Although 94.5% of glider pilots don't fit this profile,
it is unfortunately true that the 5.5% who do that
probably drive people away from the sport. Not sure
if there is much of a solution other then warning the
unwary of this possibility. To bad John Shelton was
not still writing 'Pez'....he would have a lot of material
to work with on this topic.

On Jul 10, 2:57 pm, Stewart Kissel
wrote:
That last thing you want is to have your kids witness
a 60-year-old self-made, self-important, 21st Century
renaissance man in the throes of a flight-line tantrum
because his crew did something wrong with/to/on his
$130K glider.

Although 94.5% of glider pilots don't fit this profile,
it is unfortunately true that the 5.5% who do that
probably drive people away from the sport. Not sure
if there is much of a solution other then warning the
unwary of this possibility. To bad John Shelton was
not still writing 'Pez'....he would have a lot of material
to work with on this topic.

As a dad with two kids who have attended a few contests (first
retrieve by my son was at age 5 months), I share the concern from
parents.

On the other hand, let's be fair, it's not just soaring. Any
activity like soaring where high-intensity people gather for a high-
intensity sport will lead to some amount of friction. I grew up
around tennis, and, though 95% of the people were wonderful, there
were 5% grumpy old men who always had a complaint about the kids.
It was worse when I started crewing for a friend of family in
sailboats at age 12 at the "yacht club" (which was, admittedly, pretty
low down on the spectrum of yacht clubs and the boats were only
Lightnings, but still...).

Those of us with kids have to go even more overboard to try to make it
fun for our families. Unfortunately, places like Parowan make that
really, really difficult. An airport in the middle of the dessert is
probably a tough sell. I've decided that there are some places
where I just can't bring the family. Instead, they come to places
like Harris Hill or New Castle where there is lots for the kids to
do.

BTW, no criticism whatsoever implied regarding the Parowan operation.

P3

Papa3 wrote:
Those of us with kids have to go even more overboard to try to make it
fun for our families. Unfortunately, places like Parowan make that
really, really difficult. An airport in the middle of the dessert is
probably a tough sell. I've decided that there are some places
where I just can't bring the family. Instead, they come to places
like Harris Hill or New Castle where there is lots for the kids to
do.

Actually, Parowan is a comparatively nice place to bring a family,
located in the midst of a growing town with an ice cream parlor and
other amenities (including trees), fancy condos to rent in a nearby ski
area, national parks and other interesting places within a short drive,
etc. If one wants to guarantee that they'll never have crew again, try
Tonopah 8^)

Another data point: my wife and daughter would occasionally accompany me
to selected non-desert glider ports, until my daughter reached 6 or so.
At that point, keeping her entertained away from home and friends was
more work than my wife was willing to put up with...

Marc

On Jul 10, 4:14 pm, Marc Ramsey wrote:
Papa3 wrote:
Actually, Parowan is a comparatively nice place to bring a family,
located in the midst of a growing town with an ice cream parlor and
other amenities (including trees), fancy condos to rent in a nearby ski
area, national parks and other interesting places within a short drive,
etc. If one wants to guarantee that they'll never have crew again, try
Tonopah 8^)

Another data point: my wife and daughter would occasionally accompany me
to selected non-desert glider ports, until my daughter reached 6 or so.
At that point, keeping her entertained away from home and friends was
more work than my wife was willing to put up with...

Marc

I stand corrected. Now, if I can just sell the "It's only a 2,000
mile drive" line, I'm set!