Other 9/11 anniversary

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...


Anybody else noticed how criticising the USA (proper name of country)
automatically makes one a troll on this medium? At least according to
some.


I would hope so as these newsgroups are for the discussion of
military aviation and naval issues, not the politics of 3 decades ago

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...


Anybody else noticed how criticising the USA (proper name of country)
automatically makes one a troll on this medium? At least according to
some.


I would hope so as these newsgroups are for the discussion of
military aviation and naval issues, not the politics of 3 decades ago

Keith

Poor answer Keith.

Firstly, politics obviously have a very major impact on military aviation
and naval issues. Acquisition and deployment of ships and planes are and
have always been decided by politicians.

Secondly, ships and planes were of course used quite extensively in the CIA
coup in Chile, and in Pinochet's subsequent brutal military dictatorship.
(aside: is the CIA unique among intelligence communities in having deployed
military hardware, eg U2, A12 etc? I suspect not but can't off-hand think of
other examples. Did the former KGB have its own military assets or rely on
'mainstream' Soviet vehicles for its dirty work?)

Thirdly, events of the past have very interesting effects on events of the
future and present, particularly the US-led 'war on terror' which is of
course still unfolding in all its ramifications. Are you proposing these
groups should have a cut-off before which events cannot/should not be
discussed here? If so, I'll let you be the first to tell Art Kramer (of many
examples which spring to mind!)

Fourthly, in the modern era particularly, 'asymmetric warfare' brings
terrorism and politics right into the mainstream of military issues, if
anyone was ever in any doubt about this.

Incidentally, I wonder how many readers of this group are aware that
Pinochet's loathsome regime perpetrated murderous terrorism on US soil.

'One document, Kornbluh said, indicates that in 1991 the CIA destroyed a
file on Manuel Contreras, the former head of Chile's secret police now
serving a sentence for the 1976 car bombing in Washington that killed
Orlando Letelier, a prominent Chilean opposition leader. Letelier's American
assistant Ronni Moffitt also died in the blast'

http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americ.../cia.chile.02/

Best wishes

John

Aha. Got it. Which part of my post did you find inflammatory?

Well, John, exchanging the letter 'c' in America with three 'k's seems to have
done it for me. Did you by chance make that change to -lower- the temp of your
post, or raise it? Be honest, sir.

And where did
I act wounded?

That plaintive bleat of a response to Keith calling you a troll, when you were
trolling.

Assuming that you agree with Keith's assertion that I was
trolling that is, you don't quite make that clear!

Well, John, any time you type America as "Amerikkka", just assume that all of
your readers will take the post as a troll. Which it was.

Being patriotic, as most of us here are (to one country or another), and being
wildly supportive of everything our governments do is not the same thing. But
the inference that everyone in America somehow supports the KKK or that the KKK
someone typifies the USA is going to make quite a few of us reply negatively,
as you must have intended.

Gordon

"Gordon" wrote in message
...

Aha. Got it. Which part of my post did you find inflammatory?

Well, John, exchanging the letter 'c' in America with three 'k's seems to
have
done it for me. Did you by chance make that change to -lower- the temp of
your
post, or raise it? Be honest, sir.

And where did
I act wounded?

That plaintive bleat of a response to Keith calling you a troll, when you
were
trolling.

Assuming that you agree with Keith's assertion that I was
trolling that is, you don't quite make that clear!

Well, John, any time you type America as "Amerikkka", just assume that all
of
your readers will take the post as a troll. Which it was.

Being patriotic, as most of us here are (to one country or another), and
being
wildly supportive of everything our governments do is not the same thing.
But
the inference that everyone in America somehow supports the KKK or that
the KKK
someone typifies the USA is going to make quite a few of us reply
negatively,
as you must have intended.

ISWYM. I apologise for any implication that all Americans support the KKK. I
suppose I was trying to show how awful I think America's support for
terrorism was in the past, and how counter-productive it has turned out to
be in the present. Maybe there is a (slight) link between historical US
knee-jerk hatred and fear of all things left-wing, and the KKK's knee-jerk
hatred and fear of all black people. I regret typing it that way though as
it actually dilutes the point I was trying to make, as well as any offence
caused to decent Americans.

However, I would have to add that for a country as capable of throwing its
weight around over a longish period, a lot of you seem to have pretty thin
skins!

Cheers

John

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
Anyone else noticed the odd coincidence of the NYC atrocity with
Amerikkka's
cynical destruction of Chile's elected government to be replaced by
military
dictatorship?

So, are you trying to claim that ****ed of Chileans were behind 911, and not
****ed off Saudis? And I do hope you weren't a fan of Maggie Thatcher, who
was actually buddies with Pinochet.

tim gueguen 101867

"tim gueguen" wrote in message
. ca...

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
Anyone else noticed the odd coincidence of the NYC atrocity with
Amerikkka's
cynical destruction of Chile's elected government to be replaced by
military
dictatorship?

So, are you trying to claim that ****ed of Chileans were behind 911, and
not
****ed off Saudis?

Nah, looks like it would have been Arabian anti-Saudis right enough. Nothing
(of course) to do with Iraq.

And I do hope you weren't a fan of Maggie Thatcher, who
was actually buddies with Pinochet.

I never liked either of them, although in a way they were made for each
other. Thatch sucked up to Pinochet who she had a natural soft spot for as a
fellow right-wing dictator, as he was and she no doubt fantasised about
being. He paid back the favour by 'helping' the UK in the Falklands in 82.
And she tried to rerepay by speaking out for him when he was arrested
(rightly in my view) as the war criminal he is in 98. However, I don't think
that is the reason Tony B'Liar helped let him off scot-free. Nor do I think
it's because she is probably his major role-model in politics.

On-topic; anybody have any good refs for the Chilean forces involved in the
coup; I know the AF went with the army against the Govt and imagine the Navy
would have as well. Anybody got better info? I have various books that refer
to it in passing but no detailed info.

John

ISWYM. I apologise for any implication that all Americans support the KKK.

I greatly appreciate that apology - as a kid, I was sent to the opposite end of
the country and dropped into a school right out of hell, where it was a normal
part of the routine for various other kids to press KKK literature and flyers
into my hands in the halls. I was horrified by the attitudes I saw and was
damn thankful that I didn't have to deal with that type of bigotry for very
long! The KKK are an abomination, just as the National Socialists were to
Germany or the Shining Path to South America. I think every country has some
reason to feel shame about their past - but I don't feel that we need to accept
that any of those groups are best represented by those organizations.

I
suppose I was trying to show how awful I think America's support for
terrorism was in the past, and how counter-productive it has turned out to
be in the present.

Agree. Some of the things our government has pulled over the years - such as
this months' rollback of the EPA regulations concerning our air quality (to
name one of a hundred things off the top of my head) - just plain makes me
sick. Unfortunately, just like all other citizens of the world, Americans end
up getting stuck with whatever governing group best "sold" itself in the last
election - meaning sometimes we have bonesmen and other times, boneheads,
driving the bus. We can only hope that our nation will continue making
progress toward perfecting democracy. It ain't always pretty, but it beats
Stalinism and several other methods of leadership.

Maybe there is a (slight) link between historical US
knee-jerk hatred and fear of all things left-wing, and the KKK's knee-jerk
hatred and fear of all black people.

Possible - I try to hate individuals (and only one at a time, as per mom's
instructions), not groups, so it is a foreign concept for me to hate anyone en
masse, with the exception of bigots in general.

I regret typing it that way though as
it actually dilutes the point I was trying to make, as well as any offence
caused to decent Americans.

That's appreciated. Not that I am a 'decent American'! LOL

However, I would have to add that for a country as capable of throwing its
weight around over a longish period, a lot of you seem to have pretty thin
skins!

True, but that has more to do with our leadership than the typical man on the
street. More than anything, folks here just hate to be identified by the
traits exhibited by a small percentage of losers, like most other countries
have to put up with as well. A good example is the recent unpleasantness of
the overt racist elected to public office in Austria - although he somehow won
the seat, it didn't suggest that the average Austrian agreed with his brand of
garbage. Same as here, basically.

v/r
Gordon

On 09 Sep 2003 17:41:11 GMT, nt (Gordon) wrote:

Well, John, any time you type America as "Amerikkka", just assume that all of
your readers will take the post as a troll. Which it was.

One k will do it for me. The poster goes into the kill file forthwith.
Perhaps I've kill-filed a few innocent sods who genuinely can't spell,
but hey, they should have paid more attention when Sister Maria was
slapping the ruler into her palm.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

The KKK are an abomination, just as the National Socialists were to
Germany or the Shining Path to South America.

Hardly the same sort of thing. Not even the same sort of thing as Le
Pen in France.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

The KKK are an abomination, just as the National Socialists were to
Germany or the Shining Path to South America.

Hardly the same sort of thing. Not even the same sort of thing as Le
Pen in France.

To me, "mass haters" are the same bag of ****, regardless of how successful or
unsuccessful they have been with carrying out their own personal brands of
racial "improvements".

G