Saw President Bush's plane (response to "Saw J.T.'s Plane")

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...

Security around the President is hardly a new thing.

It's weird, though. When Bush comes to town his appearance location is
secret, private or surrounded by cyclone fences.

My ex-girlfriend got to shake Clinton's hand in the Portland State
University park blocks. (That was before the Lewinski thing.) Security
everywhere, but he could still get out there and meet the general public.
Maybe it's 'cause we're at war now, but, the change hasn't exactly gone over
well here.

-c

Mxsmanic wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

But while sovereign immunity has been reduced much over the years
national security issues is one place where it still carries some
weight and I see no court deciding that protection of the President
should be secondary to some commercial loss.

Why not? The USA is a democracy, and the President is only one part
of a government that employs a balance of powers. This being so,
there's a limit to the President's importance to the nation, and
therefore a limit to the measures that can reasonably be justified to
protect him. The constant inflationary spiral of these measures has
to stop somewhere. Bringing a city to a halt is not really
justified, not even for the President.



First off no, the USA isn't and never was. It is a representative republic.
The President and Vice President are the only two representatives who are
elected by the entire electorate. That does give them a certain higher
standing than the other members of our government.

But that aside the majority of the citizens of the US feel that the POTUS is
of significant enough importance to allow those who are charged with his
well being a certain latitude in his protection. While a individual or even
many individulas might have in the past or in the future suffer some
financial loss due to the steps required to protect the POTUS it pales in
comparison to the loss that would be suffered by many, many people should he
be killed, especially should that attack be part of a larger attack on our
country. The loss may well be caused by purely emotional reactions but that
doesn't make the loss any less.

Bringing a city to a halt is, to say the least, a little overstated. Bush
was here in little old El Dorado Arkansas (pop. ~20k) before the last
election. The town didn't come to a halt. A matter of fact if you weren't in
a 4 block radius of where he was speaking you wouldn't have known he was in
town. As a matter of fact I went to the airport where AF1 was sitting
(though it wasn't the 747 it was a 757)and was allowed inside the fence and
allowed to go to my hanger. There was a police officer there who asked why I
was there. When I pointed to the airplane tires in the back of my truck and
to my hanger he said, "Have a nice day and please leave via this exit." This
was mainly because AF1 was parked 50 yards from the other exit and I would
have had to drive past it.

As far as the limit to the POTUS's importance to the US, yes there is a
limit as there is a limit to what can be done to protect him. But, at least
at this point the general public doesn't think that limit has been exceeded.

Keep in mind that even though you are making great headway in the
competition there are still a lot more people that would want to do harm to
the POTUS than there are that want to do so to the average citizen.

Gattman wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...

Security around the President is hardly a new thing.

It's weird, though. When Bush comes to town his appearance location
is secret, private or surrounded by cyclone fences.

My ex-girlfriend got to shake Clinton's hand in the Portland State
University park blocks. (That was before the Lewinski thing.) Security
everywhere, but he could still get out there and meet the
general public. Maybe it's 'cause we're at war now, but, the change
hasn't exactly gone over well here.

-c

I know several people that got to shake Bush's hand when he was here before
the last election. As a matter of fact his motorcade came within a block of
my house well within shooting distance and though I was at work when he
actually drove by there was no visible security on the route 30 minutes
before.

I think the level of security changes with possible threats. Obviously his
security felt safer when he was in South Arkansas.

On Aug 30, 6:17 am, john wrote:

Give me a break. Has anyone been shot attempting to greet the
president? The answer is no, you might get arrested but your not going
to get shot for trying to get close to him. Presidents are at more risk
of getting shot then people approaching him. You most certainly will get
a gun pointed at you but it won't be fired

The leadership here at TSTC has been briefed long ago to warn students
about crossing boundaries such as dark-suited personel, closed gates
that are normally opened, etc. with the possibility that lethal force
could absolutely be used if necessary.
Now, that's what I heard. Things one hears at a college campus about
matters like this are not to always be trusted, but it sounds
reasonable to me.
A few semesters ago some A&P students hopped the normally-open gate
going to the hangar during a Bush arrival or departure, worried about
missing lab. They were very quickly apprehended and detained,
questioned for many hours and ultimately put on a terrorist watch
list.

Ricky

On Aug 30, 10:09 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Ricky writes:
It is also fortunate that the general public can walk up to AFO while
it's parked at the tower and get just about right under the wingtip,
outside of the rope which surrounds it. This truly is one beauty of a
747. Photos are welcomed as well during this time.

Why is this fortunate?

Well, most folks around here appreciate the opportunity to walk right
up to AFO, see the pretty plane, take pictures etc...as did I.

Isn't the USA still a democracy? Is there some reason
why you _shouldn't_ be able to do these things? Is the President a civil
servant or a deity?

Sure, but he's also well protected since 9-11 especially.

I have heard stories of student pilots trapped out in the TSTC
practice areas in the 95-100 degree Tx. sun in their 152s or Katanas
while Bush comes & goes, even having to divert to Hillsboro or Mexia
due to fuel concerns.

They can declare an emergency if necessary, which takes precedence even over
the President.

I don't know. The Air Force does not operate under FAA rules, do they?
Especially during presidential arrivals/departures.
I have the feeling that even an emergency would be told to go
somewhere else OR the fighters would see to it that the emergency was
taken care of without getting near Bush.

Handshakes & autographs? Out of the question. All human beings are
ordered away. The consequnce will not be an FBO denied business,
however, it will likely be a high-powered rifle bullet to the head!

If you are commanded to genuflect or salivate, do you do that, too?

Whatever.

Ricky

On Aug 30, 11:04 am, AustinMN wrote:
On Aug 30, 12:26 am, Ricky wrote:

I'm an A&P student here at Texas State Technical College and our
campus is the old James Connally Air Force Base (Waco, TX.). When Bush
goes to & from Crawford, Air Force One lands & parks here as Waco
Regional's runways are too short for a 747. He then takes Air Force 2
(big helicopter) out to or from his ranch, flanked by several other
mean looking choppers as well as identical decoys, I assume.

First, if it has the president, it becomes Air Force One, whether it's
a fixed wing, rotorcraft, blimp, or balloon...unless it's under the
Marines, in which case it's Marine One, or the Navy, making it Navy
One, etc.

Air Force Two would be the VP's aircraft.

Austin

Oh, thanks for the correction. Yo ulearn something new every day
(sometimes).

Ricky

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...


First off no, the USA isn't and never was. It is a representative
republic. The President and Vice President are the only two
representatives who are elected by the entire electorate. That does give
them a certain higher standing than the other members of our government.
Since you're picking nits, I'll join in:

First, they are elected by the Electoral College, and second, they are
executives, not representatives. Only our representatives are elected by
direct vote, and even senators were originally elected by state
representative.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
I know several people that got to shake Bush's hand when he was here
before the last election. As a matter of fact his motorcade came within a
block of my house well within shooting distance and though I was at work
when he actually drove by there was no visible security on the route 30
minutes before.

I think the level of security changes with possible threats. Obviously his
security felt safer when he was in South Arkansas.

Did they have this particular black SUV there? http://navlog.org/q_car.wmv.

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
I know several people that got to shake Bush's hand when he was here
before the last election. As a matter of fact his motorcade came
within a block of my house well within shooting distance and though
I was at work when he actually drove by there was no visible
security on the route 30 minutes before.

I think the level of security changes with possible threats.
Obviously his security felt safer when he was in South Arkansas.

Did they have this particular black SUV there?
http://navlog.org/q_car.wmv.

There were several Black SUVs in attendance

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...


First off no, the USA isn't and never was. It is a representative
republic. The President and Vice President are the only two
representatives who are elected by the entire electorate. That does
give them a certain higher standing than the other members of our
government.
Since you're picking nits, I'll join in:

First, they are elected by the Electoral College, and second, they are
executives, not representatives. Only our representatives are elected
by direct vote, and even senators were originally elected by state
representative.

Let me rephrase. PRES & VPRES are the only folks whose names are on
everyone's ballot.

And originally the VP was whoever came in second for President. Of all the
constitution that had to be the silliest idea in it.