What's it gonna take?

Jay,

Opinions?


I know there are things I don't know enough about to have one.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Sep 12, 9:44 am, Jay Honeck wrote:
...to fix the airlines?

I mean, really. No politics. No FAA union/management propaganda.
Just the facts, ma'am.

Here's what I *think* I know:

- Major airports (or "hubs") are way over-crowded, beyond capacity
- Minor airports (or "spokes") are becoming over-crowded, too
- GA airports (like Iowa City) are vastly under-utilized

The "solution" I most often hear bandied about is that the airlines
should abandon (or modify) the "hub & spoke" business model (whereby
they have massive centers of activity -- or "hubs" -- feeding the
farther-out "spoke" airports), and start making better use of the
thousands of under-utilized airports in America. In other words,
they should take the service to the people, rather than making the
people come to the service.

St Louis bought out 3000 homes and built a billion dollar runway. TWA
folded, American moved out, and it sits unused right here in the
middle of the country. Seems it could take some pressure off the
busier hubs. Went to Operation Rain Check and the controllers begged
us to use their services to justify their existance.

Great place for touch and gos. http://pad39a.com/gene/flypix18.html
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

Gene Seibel wrote:


St Louis bought out 3000 homes and built a billion dollar runway. TWA
folded, American moved out, and it sits unused right here in the
middle of the country. Seems it could take some pressure off the
busier hubs. Went to Operation Rain Check and the controllers begged
us to use their services to justify their existance.

The Hub and Spoke system relies somewhat on the fact that a pretty good
number of the passengers want to go to the hub cities. I guess no one wnats
to go to STL.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Gene Seibel wrote:


St Louis bought out 3000 homes and built a billion dollar runway. TWA
folded, American moved out, and it sits unused right here in the
middle of the country. Seems it could take some pressure off the
busier hubs. Went to Operation Rain Check and the controllers begged
us to use their services to justify their existance.

The Hub and Spoke system relies somewhat on the fact that a pretty good
number of the passengers want to go to the hub cities. I guess no one
wnats to go to STL.



St Louis was a major maintenance base for TWA, kind of like Tulsa for
American. After American bought them out, I think most of the work went to
Tulsa and Alliance Fort Worth.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:

Gene Seibel wrote:


The Hub and Spoke system relies somewhat on the fact that a pretty
good number of the passengers want to go to the hub cities. I guess no
one wnats to go to STL.




Go check out the statistics for ATL. The last time I saw them
published, something like 85% of the passengers landing at ATL were there
just to catch a connecting flight. Many years ago it was said that when
someone in the Southeast passed away, the only way to get to heaven or hell
was to connect at ATL.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Marty Shapiro wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:

Gene Seibel wrote:


The Hub and Spoke system relies somewhat on the fact that a pretty
good number of the passengers want to go to the hub cities. I guess
no one wnats to go to STL.




Go check out the statistics for ATL. The last time I saw them
published, something like 85% of the passengers landing at ATL were
there just to catch a connecting flight. Many years ago it was said
that when someone in the Southeast passed away, the only way to get
to heaven or hell was to connect at ATL.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

I have no problem with that number. But that means with 85,000,000 pax/year
12,000,000 were going to ATL. That is a "pretty good number" in my book.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message


The Hub and Spoke system relies somewhat on the fact that a pretty
good number of the passengers want to go to the hub cities.

No, it doesn't. FedEx uses the H&S, for example, with a *very* limited
number of passengers. The model is merely a means of moving large numbers of
objects (passengers, freight, etc.) efficiently.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
http://sage1solutions.com/products
NEW! FlyteBalance v2.0 (W&B); FlyteLog v2.0 (Logbook)
____________________

John T wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message


The Hub and Spoke system relies somewhat on the fact that a pretty
good number of the passengers want to go to the hub cities.

No, it doesn't. FedEx uses the H&S, for example, with a *very* limited
number of passengers. The model is merely a means of moving large
numbers of objects (passengers, freight, etc.) efficiently.

FedEx uses the 'Mother of All H&S" systems but overnight envelopes don't
mind sitting in a box on the ramp for a couple of hours.

Name me one passenger airline that's main hub isn't co-located with a high
passenger target location.

If this wasn't the case the airlines would have all built airports out in
the middle of nowhere for next to nothing and Hub'd out them.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message


"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message


The Hub and Spoke system relies somewhat on the fact that a pretty
good number of the passengers want to go to the hub cities.

No, it doesn't. FedEx uses the H&S, for example, with a *very*
limited number of passengers. The model is merely a means of moving
large numbers of objects (passengers, freight, etc.) efficiently.

FedEx uses the 'Mother of All H&S" systems but overnight envelopes
don't mind sitting in a box on the ramp for a couple of hours.

Name me one passenger airline that's main hub isn't co-located with a
high passenger target location.

If this wasn't the case the airlines would have all built airports
out in the middle of nowhere for next to nothing and Hub'd out them.

The H&S model itself does not require a passenger magnet location. I'm not
suggesting the airlines have implemented the model to the contrary, but
there's nothing preventing a hub from being at any airport with the size to
handle the planes required and accommodations for the transient population.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
http://sage1solutions.com/products
NEW! FlyteBalance v2.0 (W&B); FlyteLog v2.0 (Logbook)
____________________

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:20:19 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:

John T wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message


The Hub and Spoke system relies somewhat on the fact that a pretty
good number of the passengers want to go to the hub cities.

No, it doesn't. FedEx uses the H&S, for example, with a *very* limited
number of passengers. The model is merely a means of moving large
numbers of objects (passengers, freight, etc.) efficiently.

FedEx uses the 'Mother of All H&S" systems but overnight envelopes don't
mind sitting in a box on the ramp for a couple of hours.

Name me one passenger airline that's main hub isn't co-located with a high
passenger target location.

If this wasn't the case the airlines would have all built airports out in
the middle of nowhere for next to nothing and Hub'd out them.

Great idea. Scrap ORD and put it's replacement Geographically centered
in the US. *Relatively* cheap land, few neighbors to complain, no
ground traffic problems as there's no place to go, less air congestion
as there is little local traffic and the bizjets are going to real
airports at their destinations. So now we can be more comfortable
gazing at Denny's NUBILE stewardesses in short skirts.

BTW with security, traveling by road into Canada is now as bad as
flying with the long waits.

Roger (K8RI)