Reno Air Races

Jay Honeck wrote:


An L-39 ain't a prop plane, however. It's a sleek, dart-like design
with stubby wings that would seem to offer little aerodynamic traction
for that kind of turbulence.

The shape of the plane has exactly nothing to do with it. Weight is
everything.

Jay Honeck wrote:
Flying an Electra on approach to Miami following just a little B-727,
I suddenly found myself in a 60 degree bank. Fortunately, skill, daring
and 600' of altitude saved the day, and my ass.

Yeah, I had a similar experience flying behind a C-130 into
Albuquerque. It got my attention.

An L-39 ain't a prop plane, however. It's a sleek, dart-like design
with stubby wings that would seem to offer little aerodynamic traction
for that kind of turbulence.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Nothing special about the L39 that would protect it from sudden roll
rate induced by wake turbulence. It's fairly well balanced
aerodynamically actually and is neutrally mass loaded; a perfect
airframe in roll.
It all depends on how close in and at what angle you intercept the
vortex and your specific flight parameters as you hit it.
Wake turbulence in my opinion, even with all that has been written about
it, is one of the most deadly aspects involved in flying, and deserves
MUCH more consideration from pilots than it gets.
DH

--
Dudley Henriques

In article 28,
Bob Moore wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote
Anyone know if flying "through someone's jet wash" (as Goose put it)
could bring down an L-39?

Flying an Electra on approach to Miami following just a little B-727,
I suddenly found myself in a 60 degree bank. Fortunately, skill, daring
and 600' of altitude saved the day, and my ass.

Bob Moore

Bob,

I forgot to ask if you knew Charlie Tennstedt. He lives here and is
still as crusty as ever at 91 and still flies!

Jay

Yep.

Big John

*****************************************

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 06:47:58 -0700, Jay Honeck
wrote:

Click hehttp://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6896893

Thanks for the link, Big John.

The jet crash is intriguing. The article speculates that he got
caught in wake turbulence that caused the crash? Holy "Top Gun", I
thought that was a Hollywood contrivance.

Anyone know if flying "through someone's jet wash" (as Goose put it)
could bring down an L-39?

"Newps" wrote in message
...


Jay Honeck wrote:


An L-39 ain't a prop plane, however. It's a sleek, dart-like design
with stubby wings that would seem to offer little aerodynamic traction
for that kind of turbulence.

The shape of the plane has exactly nothing to do with it. Weight is
everything.

Umm...the aspect ratio of the wing?

In article 28,
Bob Moore wrote:

Orval Fairbairn wrote
I forgot to ask if you knew Charlie Tennstedt. He lives here and is
still as crusty as ever at 91 and still flies!

Nope! Don't think that I ever met the gentleman.

Bob

He was Chief Pilot for Eastern back in the old days -- quite a character!

My condolences to the Reno racers familys.
Gary was a great person,ag pilot,war bird pilot,and reno racer and meny
time winer,Instructor. DAMM these accidents. LJ
wrote:
On Sep 14, 12:59 pm, Dave S wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:

Man, we wanted to attend this year, but things at the ol' hotel just
haven't cooperated. Between remodeling, personnel, and football
season, we just can't get away right now.

Anyone going? Anyone there? PIREPs, please?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

It's a bad year out there.. I just got around to checking belated voice
mails and my good friend was out there and saw one of the jets auger in.
There's a handful of L-39's on my field here, but I dont think any of
them race/pace (anymore).

2 fatals in 3 days.

I hope this is the end of the bad news.

Dave


Unfortunately not... Gary Hubler of Caldwell Idaho died when his
Formula 1 was involved in a collision today:
http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/s....d3350b54.html

Hubler field is a private airport just north of the Caldwell airport.
He has been a big figure in Idaho aviation in recent years. I saw him
testing his racer at the Caldwell airport earlier this summer.

Bummer...

Dean

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
Flying an Electra on approach to Miami following just a little B-727,
I suddenly found myself in a 60 degree bank. Fortunately, skill, daring
and 600' of altitude saved the day, and my ass.

Yeah, I had a similar experience flying behind a C-130 into
Albuquerque. It got my attention.

An L-39 ain't a prop plane, however. It's a sleek, dart-like design
with stubby wings that would seem to offer little aerodynamic traction
for that kind of turbulence.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


True, but the L39 was not 3 miles in trail either. Yes, wake turbulence
has seriously affected race aircraft before, the AmsOil racer comes to mind.
He was rolled near inverted going around the first pylon, and managed to
recover to an 80 degree bank as he touched the ground. I watched that
aircraft disassemble itself in about a second, and as the dust cleared,
shoulder straps popped up and Dan Mortensen stood up and walked out of the
carnage.
I do believe that If we set it up carefully, I can roll your piper more
than 60 degrees with a C150.

Al G (grew up in Reno, pumped gas at the air races as a kid)

Jay Honeck wrote:

An L-39 ain't a prop plane, however. It's a sleek, dart-like design
with stubby wings that would seem to offer little aerodynamic traction
for that kind of turbulence.

Those guys are also pulling considerable G's which will affect wake character.


Its too bad. Condolences to all. Indeed a tragic year.

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200709/1

Kloudy via AviationKB.com wrote:
Jay Honeck wrote:
An L-39 ain't a prop plane, however. It's a sleek, dart-like design
with stubby wings that would seem to offer little aerodynamic traction
for that kind of turbulence.

Those guys are also pulling considerable G's which will affect wake character.


Its too bad. Condolences to all. Indeed a tragic year.

This is true. I can attest to it. I was once in direct trail with an F8F
playing around in a tail chase down low. We were alternating in turn
direction. I was close in and he had enough g on his airplane to keep me
in his marbles but not enough to throw me out into overshoot. He went
hard left on me and I followed him into the turn, then he suddenly went
even harder left, going out to all the Bear would give him. As I
followed him I hit his vortex from the now greater alpha he was
generating. It was like flying into a wrench. It damn near inverted me.
Bottom line is hat it can REALLY get hairy following into a hard turn
close in and in trail like that.
The guys at Reno are well up on this and allow for it.
DH

--
Dudley Henriques