Holding Pattern Question

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:32:00 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:

If no delay is expected, why issue a hold?


Because people who write written exams need a reason to ask a
question? G

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

If no delay is expected, why issue a hold?


For a variety of reasons. Let's say your destination is an uncontrolled
field and there's traffic ahead of you for that field. The controller can't
clear you for the approach because the preceding aircraft hasn't cancelled,
but he expects it to cancel before you'd experience any delay.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
If no delay is expected, why issue a hold?


For a variety of reasons. Let's say your destination is an uncontrolled
field and there's traffic ahead of you for that field. The controller can't
clear you for the approach because the preceding aircraft hasn't cancelled,
but he expects it to cancel before you'd experience any delay.



In that case, you better ask for an EFC if you haven't received further
clearance prior to arrival at the holding fix.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

In that case, you better ask for an EFC if you haven't received further
clearance prior to arrival at the holding fix.


Yes, but in that case the controller expects to issue an approach clearance
before you arrive at the holding fix. That's why no delay is expected.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
...

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

If no delay is expected, why issue a hold?


For a variety of reasons. Let's say your destination is an uncontrolled
field and there's traffic ahead of you for that field. The controller
can't clear you for the approach because the preceding aircraft hasn't
cancelled, but he expects it to cancel before you'd experience any delay.


I thought you had to get an expect further clearance time as part of the
hold instructions in case your radio failed shortly after directed to hold?
Otherwise, how would you know how many turns to make in holding before
proceeding on course? I'm not arguing, just asking,

Dennis

"Dennis Johnson" wrote in message
. ..

I thought you had to get an expect further clearance time as part of the
hold instructions in case your radio failed shortly after directed to
hold? Otherwise, how would you know how many turns to make in holding
before proceeding on course? I'm not arguing, just asking,


Why is it that comm radios fail but nav radios do not?

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...406.html#4-6-1

On 09/24/07 17:54, Dennis Johnson wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
...

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

If no delay is expected, why issue a hold?


For a variety of reasons. Let's say your destination is an uncontrolled
field and there's traffic ahead of you for that field. The controller
can't clear you for the approach because the preceding aircraft hasn't
cancelled, but he expects it to cancel before you'd experience any delay.


I thought you had to get an expect further clearance time as part of the
hold instructions in case your radio failed shortly after directed to hold?
Otherwise, how would you know how many turns to make in holding before
proceeding on course? I'm not arguing, just asking,

Dennis



The EFC is of use only if you experience communication failure. Assuming
that's the case, then with no EFC, you're expected to proceed upon reaching
the holding fix as though the EFC was zero.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Dennis Johnson wrote:
I'm probably over-thinking holding patterns and have become confused.

When given instructions to hold at a non-published holding pattern, ATC will
specify:

1. The direction from the fix, such as north, north-east, etc.
2. The name of the holding fix.
3. The radial, course, or airway on which the aircraft is to hold.
4. The leg length and direction of turns if they are not standard.
5. The expect further clearance time.

Here's my question: If I'm told to hold on a radial (as opposed to a
course), does that mean that I'm flying away from the station when I'm "on
course" in the holding pattern?

For example, I'm given the instruction, "Hold south of the VOR on the 180°
radial, expect further clearance in 15 minutes." Once I get established in
the holding pattern, do I track inbound to the station on the 180° radial or
do I track outbound on the 180° radial?

How would that be different if I were given the same instructions, except
hold on the 180° course (instead of the 180° radial)?

Thanks,
Dennis



Remember on the outbound leg you are correcting for the wind with double
or triple the crab angle used inbound. So you will not be tracking
parallel to any radial if there is a wind.