Skycatcher IFR?

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Oct 15, 6:24 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Oct 12, 4:30 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It
doesn't appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web
site.

Matt

Will Sport aircraft be allowed to be IFR certified?
-Robert

There is at least one S-LSA aircraft that is IFR
certified.http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html

So then I assume the pilot would need a current class 3 medical,
correct?

-Robert

And an IFR ticket. But the question wasn't about pilot certificates it was
about aircraft.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Oct 15, 6:24 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Oct 12, 4:30 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It
doesn't appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web
site.
Matt
Will Sport aircraft be allowed to be IFR certified?
-Robert
There is at least one S-LSA aircraft that is IFR
certified.http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html
So then I assume the pilot would need a current class 3 medical,
correct?

-Robert

And an IFR ticket. But the question wasn't about pilot certificates it was
about aircraft.



Yes. I'm instrument rated and was simply wondering what, if any, LSA's
could be flown IFR. I;m debating whether to buy one just for fun
flying, but with the capability to occasionally fly in IMC if needed. I
can buy a 20 year-old 182 that burns 12 GPH or I can buy a new LSA that
burns half that ... and is new!

Yes, I give up two seats, but most of my flying is alone anyway or with
one other person, so I'll just rent when I need four seats. That was
the rationale behind my question.

Matt

On Oct 15, 10:37 am, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:

And an IFR ticket. But the question wasn't about pilot certificates it was
about aircraft.- Hide quoted text -

I think you missed the point. Its important to point out that the
pilot would have to have a 3rd class medical because the Skycatcher
otherwise qualifies for Sport Pilots. So if you fly VFR you do not
need a medical, if you fly IFR you do. So if you are considering going
to sport pilot aircraft and looking at the SKycatcher but plan on
flying IFR its important to note that you'll need to keep a current
class 3 medical in order to fly IFR.

-Robert

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Oct 12, 4:30 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt

Will Sport aircraft be allowed to be IFR certified?
-Robert

There is at least one S-LSA aircraft that is IFR certified.
http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html
Ya know, I can't imagine spending an hour on a seven mile final in IMC. :~(

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Oct 12, 4:30 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It
doesn't appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web
site. Matt

Will Sport aircraft be allowed to be IFR certified?
-Robert

There is at least one S-LSA aircraft that is IFR certified.
http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html
Ya know, I can't imagine spending an hour on a seven mile final in
IMC. :~(


Lots of actual time for the log book.

I really doubt it. The new O-200D will not be a certified engine so I
doubt if Continental will allow that in its operating limitations. Even
more limiting, the useful load of the SkyCatcher is right at the minimum
allowable useful load for and LSA by ASTM. As such, they probably won't
have be able to add the back up electrical system needed for a glass
panel used in IMC.

If you would like a really nice Cessna-like and IFR certified LSA,
checkout the Tecnam family. They offer full IFR LSA aircraft, either
glass or traditional, your choice.

http://www.tecnamaircraft.com/Tecnam_Aircraft.htm

This company has been building airplanes for over 50 years. We have an
Echo on the line and boy is it a sweet and stable flyer. It has the
handling characteristics needed in an IFR bird. Monstrous useful load
too, especially compared to the SkyCatcher, which allows for long range
tanks, a pretty much prerequisite for flying hard IFR.

Helen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Helen Woods
Chesapeake Sport Pilot
Affordable Flight Training, Rentals, and Sales
(410) 490-1424
www.chesapeakesportpilot.com

Matt Whiting wrote:

Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=br
Helen Woodsbr
Chesapeake Sport Pilotbr
Affordable Flight Training, Rentals, and Salesbr
(410) 490-1424br
www.chesapeakesportpilot.combr

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ...

Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.


It's my reading of the rules that NONE of the new LSA built planes are FAA
CERTIFIED. They are built to an ASTM "industry consensous" standard. The FAA
has removed themselves from the mirco level regulation, created instead a
LSA framework rule, and it's basically "whatever the manufacturer allows" is
OK.

So while the original Diamond (2 seat) Katana with the Rotax engine was FAA
certified VFR day/nite, its lack of any vac system prevented it from getting
FAA night certification.

The new LSAs have access to a pair of 912 series engines from Rotax. One of
which Rotax allowed for nite ops and the other one it did not, per its ops
manual. The LSA manufacturers must State in their ops manual that nite ops
is permitted by verifying with their component suppliers (who have some sort
of veto power). Once the manufacturer says nite ops is OK (as bound by the
ASTM), then just check the FARs part 91 minimums and go.

Tecnam in leading the new ASTM subcommittee to study IFR requirements and
they are working toward a "consensous standard". Once they agree on a
standard, and the Manufacturers state in their Ops Manuals that the LSA can
operate in IMC (and they need buy-in from their major component suppliers),
the OPINION of some is that the LSA will then be abal to operate in IMC
under IFR by meeting the FARpart 91 minimums.

The FAA has yet to speak up on this. Stay tuned.

Actually, both 912's are currently night legal. (Rotax changed that
designation on the 912ULS after the LSA market came out.) Only the
912S, the one on the Katana, is IFR legal though. Also, it is my
understandig the the 912S does support a vaccum system, although the ULS
does not.

Also, in addition to the part 91 night equipment list, ASTM has a night
list of its own which includes some sort of attitude indicator and panel
lights.

Tecnams are currently available both night and IFR legal and a very nice
planes.

Helen

Mike Isaksen wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ...
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.


It's my reading of the rules that NONE of the new LSA built planes are FAA
CERTIFIED. They are built to an ASTM "industry consensous" standard. The FAA
has removed themselves from the mirco level regulation, created instead a
LSA framework rule, and it's basically "whatever the manufacturer allows" is
OK.

So while the original Diamond (2 seat) Katana with the Rotax engine was FAA
certified VFR day/nite, its lack of any vac system prevented it from getting
FAA night certification.

The new LSAs have access to a pair of 912 series engines from Rotax. One of
which Rotax allowed for nite ops and the other one it did not, per its ops
manual. The LSA manufacturers must State in their ops manual that nite ops
is permitted by verifying with their component suppliers (who have some sort
of veto power). Once the manufacturer says nite ops is OK (as bound by the
ASTM), then just check the FARs part 91 minimums and go.

Tecnam in leading the new ASTM subcommittee to study IFR requirements and
they are working toward a "consensous standard". Once they agree on a
standard, and the Manufacturers state in their Ops Manuals that the LSA can
operate in IMC (and they need buy-in from their major component suppliers),
the OPINION of some is that the LSA will then be abal to operate in IMC
under IFR by meeting the FARpart 91 minimums.

The FAA has yet to speak up on this. Stay tuned.

"Helen" wrote in message ...
Actually, both 912's are currently night legal. (Rotax changed that
designation on the 912ULS after the LSA market came out.)

OK, the two 912 series I actually meant was the 80hp and the 100hp. But
within the 100hp group I believe you are correct. Both the ULS and the S are
currently night legal. Do you recall when Rotax made the ULS night legal, I
don't think it had it the first summer that the LSAs hit? I think it was
recent.

Here's the ops manual (get your metric conv sheets out):
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.co...kus/d03925.pdf

And a service bulletin restricting fuel to 5% alcohol:
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.co...kus/d03830.pdf

Only the 912S, the one on the Katana, is IFR legal though. Also, it is my
understandig the the 912S does support a vaccum system, although the ULS
does not.

I recall the first Rotax Katanas that hit the US were non-IFR cert?!?
You are correct about the Vac pump option on the new 912s.

Also, in addition to the part 91 night equipment list, ASTM has a night
list of its own which includes some sort of attitude indicator and panel
lights.

But I don't believe the ASTM has even come out with a draft of the proposed
IMC operational standards. They may also be reaching well beyond their scope
as charged by the FAA. This is certainly an exciting and in flux issue.

Tecnams are currently available both night and IFR legal and a very nice
planes.

Tecnam do indeed make a nice series of LSAs. Heck, with the moveable seat
even I can fit inside. And they are still the only LSA I've seen with
defrost to the windshield, something I consider nessesary when it gets cold
out and 2 pilots can fog up the inside pretty quick. But even they have yet
to offer pitot heat. And I have not been able to find were the prop
manufacturer states their wood/comp prop can be used in IMC. I would love to
hear about someone who actually filed and flew IFR in IMC (and willing to
give their real name).

What I do see is an effort by many LSA to equip to better than the FAR part
91 equipment minimums. And that then allows the FBO schools to use the LSA
to train for PPLs at 4 gallons per hour.

Like I said, stay tuned. This is an exciting time in LSAs, and the rules are
being written as we watch.

Even the current Continental Katana's are VFR only. I heard somewhere
is has to do with how the composite structure would dissipate lightning
if struck. I think they added some metal in the structure to address
this on the Star.

Sorry, I don't remember when the night legal change came out.

I don't think it would be hard to find someone who would take a Tecnam
IFR. I would take ours into the scud if it was an IFR version. It's
every bit as stable as my C172 only I don't have to worry about carb ice
in the clouds like I do with my 172.

Helen

Mike Isaksen wrote:
"Helen" wrote in message ...
Actually, both 912's are currently night legal. (Rotax changed that
designation on the 912ULS after the LSA market came out.)

OK, the two 912 series I actually meant was the 80hp and the 100hp. But
within the 100hp group I believe you are correct. Both the ULS and the S are
currently night legal. Do you recall when Rotax made the ULS night legal, I
don't think it had it the first summer that the LSAs hit? I think it was
recent.

Here's the ops manual (get your metric conv sheets out):
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.co...kus/d03925.pdf

And a service bulletin restricting fuel to 5% alcohol:
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.co...kus/d03830.pdf

Only the 912S, the one on the Katana, is IFR legal though. Also, it is my
understandig the the 912S does support a vaccum system, although the ULS
does not.

I recall the first Rotax Katanas that hit the US were non-IFR cert?!?
You are correct about the Vac pump option on the new 912s.

Also, in addition to the part 91 night equipment list, ASTM has a night
list of its own which includes some sort of attitude indicator and panel
lights.

But I don't believe the ASTM has even come out with a draft of the proposed
IMC operational standards. They may also be reaching well beyond their scope
as charged by the FAA. This is certainly an exciting and in flux issue.

Tecnams are currently available both night and IFR legal and a very nice
planes.

Tecnam do indeed make a nice series of LSAs. Heck, with the moveable seat
even I can fit inside. And they are still the only LSA I've seen with
defrost to the windshield, something I consider nessesary when it gets cold
out and 2 pilots can fog up the inside pretty quick. But even they have yet
to offer pitot heat. And I have not been able to find were the prop
manufacturer states their wood/comp prop can be used in IMC. I would love to
hear about someone who actually filed and flew IFR in IMC (and willing to
give their real name).

What I do see is an effort by many LSA to equip to better than the FAR part
91 equipment minimums. And that then allows the FBO schools to use the LSA
to train for PPLs at 4 gallons per hour.

Like I said, stay tuned. This is an exciting time in LSAs, and the rules are
being written as we watch.