BUSH HIDES THE BODY BAGS...

BUFDRVR wrote:
I would have loved to hear your comments during Okinawa, or Gettysburg.
Some things are worth figthing and dying for, Peace in the Mid-East
(by way of Democracy) surely is worth it, isn't it?

Only if your political party is the one making the policy. This goes for
Republicans (guilty of such actions in '99) as well as Democrats. We've come
to a point in this nation when political parties take presedence over the
nation as a whole. There are Democrats that celebrate every time a US solider
is killed in Iraq.

Care to provide a name to go with your accusation? I don't know of any, and I'm
a Democrat. How come you know who they are and I don't?

I'm sure that there are as many Republicans who celebrate our casualties as
there are Democrats who do the same.

George Z.

Oh, they never have proof for such crap. Like Limbaugh, Coulter,
Hannity, Weiner (Savage), etc, they just make that crap up.

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message ...
BUFDRVR wrote:
I would have loved to hear your comments during Okinawa, or Gettysburg.
Some things are worth figthing and dying for, Peace in the Mid-East
(by way of Democracy) surely is worth it, isn't it?

Only if your political party is the one making the policy. This goes for
Republicans (guilty of such actions in '99) as well as Democrats. We've come
to a point in this nation when political parties take presedence over the
nation as a whole. There are Democrats that celebrate every time a US solider
is killed in Iraq.

Care to provide a name to go with your accusation? I don't know of any, and I'm
a Democrat. How come you know who they are and I don't?

I'm sure that there are as many Republicans who celebrate our casualties as
there are Democrats who do the same.

George Z.

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message ...
BUFDRVR wrote:
I would have loved to hear your comments during Okinawa, or Gettysburg.
Some things are worth figthing and dying for, Peace in the Mid-East
(by way of Democracy) surely is worth it, isn't it?

Only if your political party is the one making the policy. This goes for
Republicans (guilty of such actions in '99) as well as Democrats. We've come
to a point in this nation when political parties take presedence over the
nation as a whole. There are Democrats that celebrate every time a US solider
is killed in Iraq.

Care to provide a name to go with your accusation? I don't know of any, and I'm
a Democrat. How come you know who they are and I don't?

I'm sure that there are as many Republicans who celebrate our casualties as
there are Democrats who do the same.

George Z.

Wesley Clark? The guy who screwed up and told Albright that it would
take only a "few days" of bombing to make Milosevic cave in, then
prognosticated that the assault on Baghdad was in dire straits because
it lacked sufficient combat power (only to see Baghdad fall within the
next two weeks), and is now running for President as a Democrat? Or
for that matter, you can flip on your TV news and watch any number of
current Democratic legislators (and a host of other presidential
pretenders) bemoan the situation in Iraq on a daily basis, trying to
turn it to their political benefit. You are a WWII vet--can you recall
many Republicans in that era railing against the war effort at every
turn while FDR was in the White House?

BUFFDRVR has made a valid point, and yes, he acknowledged that it cuts
both ways (he has therefore demonstrated a heck of a lot more lack of
bias in this regard than you have)--Republicans were only too glad to
point out the problems with the Kosovo operation as it unfolded,
though not to my recollection as pointedly or vociferously as we have
seen recently from the other side of the isle. Domestic political
objectives do seem to have eclipsed the older ideals of unity and
support for the troops (and if I hear one more Democratic senator
spend five minutes slamming the current situation in Iraq and our
alleged inadequacies, with his by-rote appended, "But of course I
support the *troops*!", I am going to retch).

Brooks

"George Z. Bush" wrote:

BUFDRVR wrote:
I would have loved to hear your comments during Okinawa, or Gettysburg.
Some things are worth figthing and dying for, Peace in the Mid-East
(by way of Democracy) surely is worth it, isn't it?

Only if your political party is the one making the policy. This goes for
Republicans (guilty of such actions in '99) as well as Democrats. We've come
to a point in this nation when political parties take presedence over the
nation as a whole. There are Democrats that celebrate every time a US solider
is killed in Iraq.

Care to provide a name to go with your accusation? I don't know of any, and I'm
a Democrat. How come you know who they are and I don't?

I'm sure that there are as many Republicans who celebrate our casualties as
there are Democrats who do the same.

Don't know that any Dem is going to "celebrate" the death of another soldier,
but it surely plays into their political plans for capturing the White House.

They do seem to be hyping up every death and my belief is it is for political
purposes.

Surely you won't deny that being bogged down in Iraq is good for Democratic
Presidential hopes next year especially if the economy keeps moving towards
improvement (another "dang!" from the Dems although not explicitly stated).


SMH

Stephen Harding wrote:
"George Z. Bush" wrote:

BUFDRVR wrote:

......... There are Democrats that celebrate every time a US
solider is killed in Iraq.

Care to provide a name to go with your accusation? I don't know of any, and
I'm a Democrat. How come you know who they are and I don't?

I'm sure that there are as many Republicans who celebrate our casualties as
there are Democrats who do the same.

Don't know that any Dem is going to "celebrate" the death of another soldier,
but it surely plays into their political plans for capturing the White House.

They do seem to be hyping up every death and my belief is it is for political
purposes.

Surely you won't deny that being bogged down in Iraq is good for Democratic
Presidential hopes next year especially if the economy keeps moving towards
improvement (another "dang!" from the Dems although not explicitly stated).

Certainly I'll categorically deny that being bogged down in Iraq is good for any
American, candidate or not. Many Americans, lately including members of the
Republican Party as well as Democrats, are starting to regret that our nation
allowed itself to get involved in this military adventure for non-existent
reasons in the first place. In hindsight, we may someday conclude that we would
have been better off letting the UN handle the mess their way, instead of going
it alone.

George Z.

"George Z. Bush" wrote:

Stephen Harding wrote:
Surely you won't deny that being bogged down in Iraq is good for Democratic
Presidential hopes next year especially if the economy keeps moving towards
improvement (another "dang!" from the Dems although not explicitly stated).

Certainly I'll categorically deny that being bogged down in Iraq is good for any
American, candidate or not. Many Americans, lately including members of the

Then I don't think you're being politically realistic.

While I don't believe our Senators and Representatives *want* more US casualties
to help attain their political goals, the parties most certainly do make plans
based on how certain issues/problems play out. Dems will be favored if Iraq
is seen as a "quagmire", just as they'll be helped if the economy stays stale.

Republican Party as well as Democrats, are starting to regret that our nation
allowed itself to get involved in this military adventure for non-existent
reasons in the first place. In hindsight, we may someday conclude that we would
have been better off letting the UN handle the mess their way, instead of going
it alone.

In hindsight, when car bombs are exploding along NYC or DC streets on a fairly
regular basis, we'll see the Iraqi effort was cheap compared to having it all
happen at home.

We'll see very clearly the lesson of dropping the ball in Iraq because it "wasn't
worth it" was extremely short sighted.

The terrorists will learn that OBL was right! Americans are paper tigers without
the will to see difficult objectives through to their completion. Car bombs
worked in Lebanon. They worked in Mogadishu. They worked in Iraq. They'll
work anywhere against US interests, and they'll even work in NYC and LA.

This all won't come to pass the day after we depart Iraq in defeat, but I
believe it will come.


SMH

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:16:20 -0500, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:


Certainly I'll categorically deny that being bogged down in Iraq is good for any
American, candidate or not. Many Americans, lately including members of the
Republican Party as well as Democrats, are starting to regret that our nation
allowed itself to get involved in this military adventure for non-existent
reasons in the first place. In hindsight, we may someday conclude that we would
have been better off letting the UN handle the mess their way, instead of going
it alone.

George Z.


Had a student in my American Gov't class last week, an Iraqi Freedom
vet, Marine. He indicated the intent not to vote for Bush' reelection,
although when pressed, he couldn't find any identification with the
opposition other than his disappointment in the "quagmire" of Iraq.

I asked him if he knew where the metaphor originated, and, being a
modern American product of our educational system, he did not. I
explained that David Halberstam had written "Making of a Quagmire"
more than five YEARS after the start of full-blown US/NVN hostilities.
I pointed out that Iraqi Freedom lasted five WEEKS, and the rebuilding
phase has been going on for less than five MONTHS. Hardly "bogged
down" at this point, although the potential exists.

Recent editorials have been comparing the Iraqi democratization to the
aftermath of WW II in Europe. Five months after V-E day, the region
was lawless, with looting, refugees, sniping and disorder. It was
eighteen months until George Marshall's genius of rebuilding rather
than punishing ala Versailles began to create the stable, economically
powerful Germany and post-war Europe.

We live in a "USA Today/MTV" sort of world in which resolution must
occur within seconds or we jump cut to the next suggestive video
segment.

"Non-existant reasons"? Gotta say at the most superficial that
bringing democracy to an oppressed dictatorial nation is a pretty good
one. Ditto for demonstrating US support for an Arab people. Ditto
again for stabilizing the region and building a staunch presence
beyond Israel.

"Letting the UN handle the mess their way..."? Gimme a break. Any
examples of UN successes in handling this sort of mess?

Stephen Harding writes:

"George Z. Bush" wrote:

Surely you won't deny that being bogged down in Iraq is good for Democratic
Presidential hopes next year especially if the economy keeps moving towards
improvement (another "dang!" from the Dems although not explicitly stated).

Pot, kettle; it didn't hurt Nixon that Johnson was stuck in Vietnam
either. Depressing as this is, it is business as usual.


-dB




--
Butterflies tell me to say:
"The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily
represent those of Oracle Corporation."

David Brower wrote:

Stephen Harding writes:

"George Z. Bush" wrote:

Surely you won't deny that being bogged down in Iraq is good for Democratic
Presidential hopes next year especially if the economy keeps moving towards
improvement (another "dang!" from the Dems although not explicitly stated).

Pot, kettle; it didn't hurt Nixon that Johnson was stuck in Vietnam
either. Depressing as this is, it is business as usual.

Probably true.

But I don't think there was quite the polarization between Left and Right
that exists today. That pushes the best interests of the nation even
farther into the background in favor of personal or party gain.

That's my take on it any ways.


SMH

(BUFDRVR) wrote in message ...

We've come
to a point in this nation when political parties take presedence over the
nation as a whole.

You think it's bad now? See what the Federalists and Republicans were
saying about one another back in 1798 and 1812. There is nothing new
to this sniping. Hell, there was all sorts of dirty politics being
played out even during WWII.

--
Regards,

Michael P. Reed