Joining the USAF

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:Fg6sb.824$6p6.593@okepread03...
"Vee-One" wrote

Enlisted-ops. HA! I'll never forget the reaming that a SMSGT pro-super
gave a A1C who copped an attitude with the SSGT crew chief about the
mess
they left on a jet post-flight. He went whined to his AC about it, and
that
Captain tried to raise a fuss, instead of doing the right thing. That
type
of leadership?

Nope, leadership is always about doing the right thing. Ass reaming is
a
particular enlisted thing, and one I never paid much attention to. I
figured
they just liked screaming at each other, because they didn't have a
developed
vocabulary.

When I flew heavies, the last man off the jet was the mission commander,
and
he'd empty the bus if the seat belts weren't in the same position we found
them
on pre-flight. God help you if he found any FOD (coke cans, wrappers,
etc),
or grease-pen markings left on your equipment. But this wasn't the kind
of stuff
that we were paid to do, or excel in.


OK, I'll agree that the difference between your paycheck and mine reflect
the difference in our job, and in the level of responsibility we were both
entrusted with. However, keeping a clean aircraft has nothing to do with
rank, but respect for the equipment and people who take care of it. You
wouldn't just drop an empty can on your living room floor and think "The
wife will get it, that's what she does", would you?

I guess that there will always be a difference in the way people think and
behave towards one another. I just hope that I don't **** off the next guy
too badly with my words......................

Peter

Just be honest, and use phrases that you know will **** the six guys
off who "own" the forum, and who will drag the subject all the way
down to "The Nazi's did it" and then you will know the thread is
dead. Don't post after the Nazi's are brought up, as this is bad form.


"user" wrote
OBTW, BUFDRVR,
I have been reading in this newsgroup for a few months now, and have
just recently decided to get squirrley about posting in here. Is there
some kinda rules or FAQ's that I should read that you could point me
in the right direction to? Thanks

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
In my experience with the Air Force flying 'O's, you guys never set
foot on the hangar deck and have no clue who works on your jets.

Must be pre-1993 experience.


BUFF, I'll have to disagree, but I'll preface this by saying I only worked
in 2 units during the great "reorganization circus".

I was at Tinker AFB, working AWACS maintenance, when it happened.
Administratively, we were reassigned from a single maintenance squadron, to
fall under our respective ops squadron. Our orderly room, admin folks,
training managers, etc all moved over to the ops building. We, the
flightline folks, stayed where we were at, because we located next to the
flightline. Never saw the bosses come down to the shop (except the
maintenance officer, he stayed where we were). If you went over to the OR
and walked into the building in BDU's, EVERYBODY looked down at you. I
would have dearly loved to work at a unit where the ops-maintenace merge
worked.

You don't even work in the same place

Then who the hell were all those guys downstairs wearing the BDU's? Some
of
them were the same crew chiefs that I "just signed the jet from". They
came to
all our squadron meetings and functions too. Who the hell were they?

do you even know who works on your gear?

Well, since I spent one year as the Life Support Officer, I was very
familar,
and since they were (are) in the same squadron with me, I'd have to be a
real
idiot to not know who they were even if I wasn't LSO.

The only
contact you have with the enlisted people that work on your jets is
the crewchief.

And the line speacialists and the bomb loaders and every maintenance
personell
outside of the back shop guys who were in a differant squadron. Now....as
of 1
OCT 2002, they moved the maintenance function(except Life Support) back
to its
own squadron and out of the Ops squadron, but the people still work in the
same
offices, its just that they don't come to all the squadron meetings.
Nearly
everyone recognizes this as a mistake.


From my point of view, it's entirely the right thing to do. Again, that's
MY view, a 16 year maintainer working E-3's and E-8's.

In the Navy

snip

sarcasm onYeah, the Navy has some great officer-NCO or officer-enlisted
relationships sarcasm off

I spent a little over one month on the Theodore Roosevelt and was
astonished at
the adversarial relationships between officers and non-officers. You guys
may
work and live togather closer than the Air Force, but you certainly don't
respect and get along better.

you know where the hangar is don't you?

Since thats where my squadron was located, yes I do.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Peter

"Vee-One" wrote

OK, I'll agree that the difference between your paycheck and mine reflect
the difference in our job, and in the level of responsibility we were both
entrusted with. However, keeping a clean aircraft has nothing to do with
rank, but respect for the equipment and people who take care of it. You
wouldn't just drop an empty can on your living room floor and think "The
wife will get it, that's what she does", would you?

No, I was agreeing with you mostly. That there is a personal discipline that
must develop. I always had two sets of BDU's and Flight Suits. Those I
wore during the 24 hour C-141 ride to the war zone, and those I changed
into just before landing. I could care less if you had a spoon or a fork
sticking out your flight-suit where a pen or pencil should go, or that your
scarf and hat looked like you used it to wipe your ass. No, clean and
presentable costs very little, and I like sharp troops, and clean jets.

Gene, all I can say is your attitude really sucks and that your view of
maintenance types is severely skewed.

An ass reaming isn't "a particular enlisted thing" or even "a maintenance
thing". I can point my finger directly at certain officers (ops and
maintenance alike) who got their own asses reamed out, and even lost
jobs, because of their actions. I remember a pilot in a unit I used to be
with "lose his wings" after he flew an aircraft home from another
location with a known flight control problem. The DO (an ops officer) was
waiting on the ramp when the crew landed and ripped into him right then
and there. I know of other ops types get chewed out and even lose their
job over what they failed to do as well (e.g., not doing enough to
correct a problem).

When all is said and done, you're just another person in this world
destined to die someday just like me and everybody else here. There are
plenty of maintenance types who are not only educated, but may even be
more educated than you and quite a few other officers.

Bottom line is, you've got no class. You could put 100 of yourself
together and it still won't add up to enough class to meet the amount of
class carried by many other members (regardless of rank or what side of
the house they're on) on their own.

"Gene Storey" wrote in
news:Fg6sb.824$6p6.593@okepread03:

"Vee-One" wrote

Enlisted-ops. HA! I'll never forget the reaming that a SMSGT
pro-super gave a A1C who copped an attitude with the SSGT crew chief
about the mess they left on a jet post-flight. He went whined to his
AC about it, and that Captain tried to raise a fuss, instead of doing
the right thing. That type of leadership?

Nope, leadership is always about doing the right thing. Ass reaming
is a particular enlisted thing, and one I never paid much attention
to. I figured they just liked screaming at each other, because they
didn't have a developed vocabulary.

When I flew heavies, the last man off the jet was the mission
commander, and he'd empty the bus if the seat belts weren't in the
same position we found them on pre-flight. God help you if he found
any FOD (coke cans, wrappers, etc), or grease-pen markings left on
your equipment. But this wasn't the kind of stuff that we were paid
to do, or excel in.

"Gene Storey" wrote:
"user" wrote:

OBTW, BUFDRVR,
I have been reading in this newsgroup for a few months now, and have
just recently decided to get squirrley about posting in here. Is there
some kinda rules or FAQ's that I should read that you could point me
in the right direction to? Thanks

Just be honest, and use phrases that you know will **** the six guys
off who "own" the forum, and who will drag the subject all the way
down to "The Nazi's did it" and then you will know the thread is
dead. Don't post after the Nazi's are brought up, as this is bad form.

Hilarious! You forgot to mention that, in addition to the six
guys, the one gal who also "owns" the forum. You know, the
group's favorite retired aerospace research engineer whose
the only person "allowed" to chit chat about Kool Whip, Jello,
yummy treats for her dog and her latest warm 'n fuzzy counted
cross stitch craft project she ordered from her Lillian Vernon
catalog.

Too funny!!!
Noted.

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:48:52 GMT, Mike Marron
wrote:

"Gene Storey" wrote:
"user" wrote:

OBTW, BUFDRVR,
I have been reading in this newsgroup for a few months now, and have
just recently decided to get squirrley about posting in here. Is there
some kinda rules or FAQ's that I should read that you could point me
in the right direction to? Thanks

Just be honest, and use phrases that you know will **** the six guys
off who "own" the forum, and who will drag the subject all the way
down to "The Nazi's did it" and then you will know the thread is
dead. Don't post after the Nazi's are brought up, as this is bad form.

Hilarious! You forgot to mention that, in addition to the six
guys, the one gal who also "owns" the forum. You know, the
group's favorite retired aerospace research engineer whose
the only person "allowed" to chit chat about Kool Whip, Jello,
yummy treats for her dog and her latest warm 'n fuzzy counted
cross stitch craft project she ordered from her Lillian Vernon
catalog.

One experience was more recent, 2001 Cope Thunder in Eilsson
(sp?). , where ops and the flight gear clubhouse (complete with
lockers and showers) was in a totally seperate building than the
hangar and maintenance.

Space is always at a premium. Our Life Support shop was located across the
street in a seperate building, but there was no room in the squadron building,
perhaps the same is true at Eilson?

I'm taking it that line specialists, bomb loaders,
maintenance, flight gear, and ops are all different squadrons?

As of 1 OCT 2002 you are correct, kind of.. There are now Ops Squadrons and
Maintenance Squadrons. I'll pleade ignorance on how they've got the maintenance
squadrons broken up (crew chiefs in one, hydraulics in another, etc.), however,
from 1 OCT 1993 till 1 OCT 2002 we were all (except the back shop guys) in one
squadron. This current "break up" is considered a mistake Air Force wide.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Just be honest, and use phrases that you know will **** the six guys
off who "own" the forum, and who will drag the subject all the way
down to "The Nazi's did it" and then you will know the thread is
dead. Don't post after the Nazi's are brought up, as this is bad form.


Damn that was good...


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

BUFF, I'll have to disagree, but I'll preface this by saying I only worked
in 2 units during the great "reorganization circus".

I only worked in two as well, but it was a success story in each one.

We, the
flightline folks, stayed where we were at, because we located next to the
flightline.

In many cases around the Air Force, I'm sure this was true and in a perfect
world working in the same building would be the norm, but I don't think its
required to make the ops-mnx cooperation successful.

Never saw the bosses come down to the shop

Failure of leadership, not the system.

If you went over to the OR
and walked into the building in BDU's, EVERYBODY looked down at you.

I'll have to take your word for it, but I find it hard to believe. I thought
more highly of our young enlisted folks than I did many of our young officers.

From my point of view, it's entirely the right thing to do. Again, that's
MY view, a 16 year maintainer working E-3's and E-8's.

Obviously you're not alone or the reorganization would not have taken place.
I've been at the Pentagon since July, but as I was leaving, some of the old
(pre-1993) problems were beginning to surface and nearly everyone I talk to
about the reorganization feels it was a mistake, you're the first I've seen in
favor of it.




BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"