Landing fee at SJC? Are we now so far??

Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:26:10 -0800, ThomasH wrote
in :

Maybe some of you know what is going on with SJC?

You'll find two Transient Parking areas depicted on this airport
diagram: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0711/00693AD.PDF
Presumably there is not charge for tie down there.


The only transient parking at SJC is at either the Jet Center or ACM
Aviation. One guy, A. C. Markula (one of the early big shots at Apple
Computer) owns ACM Aviation and 1/3 of the Jet Center. There is no
difference is tie down or fuel prices. At one FAA Wings safety seminars,
they even admitted as much, stating that the Jet Center called ACM every
morning to set the fuel price.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

ThomasH wrote in
:

On 05-Nov-07 8:42, Marty Shapiro wrote:
ThomasH wrote in
:

Hi:

my friend from SoCal complained several times that every
each time he lands in SJC to visit us, even if it is for
15min only to make a pickup, as soon he taxis to transient
parking at the Jet Center, they charge him $40. I called
Jet Center, but they decline to give any answer.

I do not fly from SJC anymore. For 6-7 years this was my
home base, I used to land on the old 30R and later on 29
literally hundreds of times, and this kind of news surprises
me. Virtually the entire general aviation, small piton
anyway, has been evicted and pushed away from SJC since,
but there are still some remaining hangars with small
aircraft. Maybe some of you know what is going on with
SJC? Is it true with the $40, or is it merely a Jet Center
rip-off?

Thomas

The $40 is the Jet Center's ramp fee. I haven't looked
currently, but
a few years ago their ramp fee ($40) for a short stop was higher than
Signature's at SFO. There is no landing fee at SJC.

Thanks Marty!

Great, thus we have to discover how to park and avoid the
"ramp fee," for whatever they charge it... I do not want
drive to RHV to pickup my friend when he comes... Maybe
the east parking at ACM would be an option.

No, it is NOT an option. They charege the same $40 as the Jet Center.
ACM Aviation was founded by A. C. Markula, one of the early big shots at
Apple Computer. When the Jet Center was built, he owned a sizeable
percentage of it as well. Eventually, both became part of SJJC Aviation
Services, LLC. In June of this year, SJJC Aviation Services, LLC was
purchased by Macquarie Infrastructure Company, which in April had purchased
the Mercury Air Centers chain of FBOs.


Let me tell a story: One upon a time, as the grass was green
and small aircraft took off every minute from SJC, like in
Van Nuys 16R... :-): On the east side is ACM aviation.
We used to get fuel from them before the 30R got extended.
My flight club was in the old terminal building east or 30L.
Later we moved to the west parking and our runway of
operation was the 29. Fuel service was than switched to
Jet Center, if I recall, and our office was in the same
building, in which they reside. A very nice pilot shop
with a deli was operating at the entrance, turned now into
a deli only and souvenir shop. There are no pilots anymore
at SJC...

I haven't been into the shop in several years. The last time I was,
they still sold charts and a few pilot supplies, but were mainly a deli.

I learned to fly at SJC and even soloed there. This was before the
airspace became alphabet soup and SJC was an ARSA airport. They day I
soloed, I was doing patterns on 29 with my instructor. He had me stop at
the Jet Center to take a break. He sent me into the gift shop to get a
sectional, telling me that I was going to start cross country lessons soon.
When I came out of the gift shop, he told me he had endorsed my medical and
go out and give him three patterns. As I walked out the door, he yelled at
me that his flight bag was in the airplane and I should take care of it.

I was also a member of the flying club you mentioned for several
years. They had been operating at SJC for something like 30 years when the
airport suddenly decided that the club rules were in violation of the
airport rules and kicked them out. These were the same club rules the
aiport approved when the club was first formed and allowed to base at SJC.
The club is now at RHV.

There are pilots at SJC, but they fly biz jets.

The story of destruction of general aviation on this airport
almost got on the One Six Right DVD, and was discussed by
the AOPA a few times. The entire west side of the airport
has been demolished and is destined to be a large jet business
only. Tie down spots are deserted for some 2 years already.
Finally they constructed at least one new hangar on the
wasteland. The east side is for at least 15years a construction
zone, never ending. Now they have finally started the new
terminal building. This airport management is good only in
legal games and keeping their jobs, but they are a horror
with money management, planing, and of course, they forget
that airport is for aircraft, not for parking lots and
for abandoned land. Their concept is that all small craft
will go to the "relieve airport Reid-Hillview," but this
airport is one of the most aggressively contested airports
for a closure, see http://www.reidhillview.com/, and the
vicinity is, to be diplomatic, not high class. I was not
at ease to leave behind by car for an overnighter over there.


When they first opened, the San Jose Jet Center and the airport were
not GA (read non-biz jet) hostile like they are today. Several flying
clubs were based there over the years (Business Aircraft Center, American
Flyers, Squadron Two Flying Club). Long ago, though, both turned hostile
to GA unless it was the biz-jet crowed or air cargo.

The Jet Center has even been hostile to Angel Flight. They did, in
the past (but no longer) hassle some Angel Flight pilots over the ramp fee
and I know of one Angel Flight camp mission for deaf children to Mariposa
which had to move at the last minute from SJC to RHV because the Jet Center
didn't want us there. The RHV airport staff was outstanding that day with
they way they pitched in and assisted both the Angel Flight pilots and all
the kids.

RHV is not going to be closed. That was finally defeated several
years ago and they have been making improvements. The idiots at the county
have finally wised up and are fixing up the second floor of the terminal
building and will have a restaurant there again (after over 20 years). No
one would lease because the county would only give a month-to-month lease.
Now they will give the restaurant a long term lease. They have also
repaved the parking area, redone the gated entrance, and made some other
improvements, using Federal grants, so they won't close it very soon.

The current RHV airport manager is a good guy and straight shooter.

BTW, SJC is owned and managed by the ****ty of San Jose. RHV, along
with PAO and E16, are managed by Santa Clara County. The county owns RHV
and E16, and manages PAO, which is owned by Palo Alto and leased to the
county.

We also have a colossus here, almost dormant, the Moffett
Field. But city of Sunnyvale does not have any pilot
lobby and they to not promote the plan to convert
the still NASA field into a general aviation base for
the south bay!

Its not just nimby's in Scummyvale. It's also the nimby's in Mutton
View which don't want GA at Moffett. But, NASA seems to have other ideas.
The Google 767 files out of Moffett and they do permit some freight
flights. I hope NASA lets in a lot of freight flights, especially in the
big jets which SJC can't easily handle, like the 747F.

Thanks for the diagrams in the other posting, but we do
have all these, don't we?

Thomas



--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

On Nov 5, 11:04 am, Larry Dighera wrote:

As long as they abide by FAA regulations, I suppose they are within
their right.

They can descriminate against GA by charging high fees. The FAA
generally doesn't prohibit that.

You're saying that the airport operator (SJ county?) does not permit
aircraft, other than the one paying tie-down fees for a specific spot,
to park in rented parking spots?

That is very much true. The tie down is associated with the N number

-Robert

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:23:37 -0000, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote in
om:

On Nov 5, 11:04 am, Larry Dighera wrote:

As long as they abide by FAA regulations, I suppose they are within
their right.

They can descriminate against GA by charging high fees. The FAA
generally doesn't prohibit that.

There is something immoral about using public AIP funds to construct
an airport at which a pilot MUST pay a private corporation for the
right to use what his tax dollars have built.

You're saying that the airport operator (SJ county?) does not permit
aircraft, other than the one paying tie-down fees for a specific spot,
to park in rented parking spots?

That is very much true. The tie down is associated with the N number

-Robert

It would seem that the firm operating the airport is unnecessarily
exposing itself to potential damage liabilities as a result of
implementing that policy, but I suppose the lease agreement forces the
lessee to give up those rights.

"MS" == Marty Shapiro writes:

MS Several flying clubs were based there over the
MS years (Business Aircraft Center, American Flyers, Squadron Two
MS Flying Club).

Also the Lockheed Flying club. I was a member of that during a
student intern stint, soloed and got my license out of SJC....a long,
long time ago.
--
You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a
reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating
the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the great struggle
for independence.
~ Attributed to Charles Austin Beard

Bob Fry wrote in :

"MS" == Marty Shapiro writes:

MS Several flying clubs were based there over the
MS years (Business Aircraft Center, American Flyers, Squadron Two
MS Flying Club).

Also the Lockheed Flying club. I was a member of that during a
student intern stint, soloed and got my license out of SJC....a long,
long time ago.

Were you in the Jet Center or the old GA terminal building? There
were several other flying clubs at SJC which had lockers at the old GA
terminal before it was torn down to expand 30R.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

On Nov 5, 10:36 am, ThomasH wrote:

Actually 16R is mostly for kerosene burners too: bugsmashers are more
commonly directed to the smaller 16L.

Fortunately here in the valley we also have WHP, which doesn't attract
the jet set at all.

Let me tell a story: One upon a time, as the grass was green
and small aircraft took off every minute from SJC, like in
Van Nuys 16R... :-):

"MS" == Marty Shapiro writes:

MS Were you in the Jet Center or the old GA terminal
MS building? There were several other flying clubs at SJC which
MS had lockers at the old GA terminal before it was torn down to
MS expand 30R.

I think the GA terminal, though at the time I didn't think of it as a
"terminal". This was in 1975. I soloed the last day I was a teenager,
and passed my flight test on the 199th anniversary of US independence,
easy dates to remember.

I think instruction was $8/hour and a C-150, wet, was $13. A lot of
money for a student salary, but it was either that, or buy a good
car. Being a geek I didn't care much about my vehicle...I wanted to
learn to fly!

Headphones and push-to-talk buttons belonged to pilots in crisp white
dress shirts in big airplanes. It was a big advance for us to start
buying and using the foam earplugs. Microphone and loudspeaker turned
up to distortion were the norm. Even then SJC was busy so it was one
hand on yoke, another on throttle, third hand holding the mic.
--
The world is too dangerous to live in, not because of the people who
do evil, but because of the people who sit and let it happen.
~ Albert Einstein

Bob Fry wrote in :

"MS" == Marty Shapiro writes:

MS Were you in the Jet Center or the old GA terminal
MS building? There were several other flying clubs at SJC which
MS had lockers at the old GA terminal before it was torn down to
MS expand 30R.

I think the GA terminal, though at the time I didn't think of it as a
"terminal". This was in 1975. I soloed the last day I was a teenager,
and passed my flight test on the 199th anniversary of US independence,
easy dates to remember.

I think instruction was $8/hour and a C-150, wet, was $13. A lot of
money for a student salary, but it was either that, or buy a good
car. Being a geek I didn't care much about my vehicle...I wanted to
learn to fly!

Headphones and push-to-talk buttons belonged to pilots in crisp white
dress shirts in big airplanes. It was a big advance for us to start
buying and using the foam earplugs. Microphone and loudspeaker turned
up to distortion were the norm. Even then SJC was busy so it was one
hand on yoke, another on throttle, third hand holding the mic.

It was the original airline terminal and airport office for SJC.

You could go up to the observation deck on the roof of the building
and have a great view of the airliners landing on 30L. At some parties we
would go up there and "rate" the landings. We could play the music as loud
as we wanted with no complaints! "Mile High Club" flights ran out of that
terminal as well.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

"MS" == Marty Shapiro writes:
MS It was the original airline terminal and airport
MS office for SJC.

MS You could go up to the observation deck on the roof of
MS the building and have a great view of the airliners landing on
MS 30L. At some parties we would go up there and "rate" the
MS landings. We could play the music as loud as we wanted with
MS no complaints! "Mile High Club" flights ran out of that
MS terminal as well.

Gee, I woulda remembered that stuff at that age.
The Lockheed club operated out of some nondescript building
away from most others.
--
You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty.
~ Sacha Guitry