FAA ADS-B Propaganda Video

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 10:30:47 -0800 (PST), "F. Baum"
wrote in
:

On Dec 22, 11:10*am, Larry Dighera wrote:

The air carriers benefit. *The FAA contractors (Boeing, LockMart,
ITT,...) benefit. *There might be some benefit for ATC. *But as
proposed in the NPRM, it is GA that has to spend a _LOT_ of cash to
make it happen, and I am unable to find any significant benefit for
GA.
Lar, your first post said that air carriers are going to be exempt and
now you say they will benefit ?

The airliners are already equipped with Mode S transponders and
certified GPS receivers. The cost of installation of an ADS-B box is
a VERY SMALL percentage of the value of the aircraft, unlike light GA
where the ADS-B installation might comprise 50% of the value of the
aircraft.

Actually, I would hope the air carriers benefit because if they benefit,
we all benefit. *

I'm still waiting for you to list the benefits to GA aircraft owners
that the FAA's ADS-B NPRM will provide. If you are unable to list
them, I'll have to conclude that you agree that there are none.

"F. Baum" wrote:

On Dec 22, 10:22=A0am, Larry Dighera wrote:

I wonder why AOPA has not come out against this NPRM
like they did the border crossing rule and user fees. =A0This NPRM is
worse than both of those.

I suppose AOPA is choosing their battles. =A0

I think the fact that AOPA is not fighting this is your first clue.
ADS is going to be a tremendous benefit for everyone.
F Baum

Have you read the NPRM? I have and see ZERO benefit to me.

Ron Lee

"F. Baum" wrote:

On Dec 22, 10:22=A0am, Larry Dighera wrote:

I wonder why AOPA has not come out against this NPRM
like they did the border crossing rule and user fees. =A0This NPRM is
worse than both of those.

I suppose AOPA is choosing their battles. =A0

I think the fact that AOPA is not fighting this is your first clue.
ADS is going to be a tremendous benefit for everyone.
F Baum

Are you a pilot?

Do you own a GA aircraft?

Have you read the NPRM?

Can you provide reasonable proof where I benefit (GA Pilot and
aircraft owner)?

If you read my treatise on this NPRM I refute the notion that it is a
safety benefit, that the increased accuracy is of any real world value
or that it offers me ANY benefit for the potential huge cost (TBD but
in the $9000 - $17000 range).

http://home.pcisys.net/~ronlee/Reply...S-BOutNPRM.doc

Even the notion that it will benefit airlines is questionable.

Ron Lee

On Dec 22, 12:12*pm, Larry Dighera wrote:

I'm still waiting for you to list the benefits to GA aircraft owners
that the FAA's ADS-B NPRM will provide. *If you are unable to list
them, I'll have to conclude that you agree that there are none.

Yea, you are right. Lets not modernize our airspace. If you take a
look at the NPRM and the FAA material on Next Gen you will see that it
benefits GA much more than the airlines. I dont know who you fly for,
but the airlines already have many of the Next Gen procedures are in
place. I dont mean to be sarcastic Larry, but when you fly an RNAV or
RNP procedure do you long for the good old days of vectors and
holding patterns ?
FB

On Dec 22, 2:49*pm, (Ron Lee) wrote:

Are you a pilot?

Ive slipped them surly bonds a time or two.

Do you own a GA aircraft?

Ive biult three and I currently own two.

Have you read the NPRM?

The parts that didnt make my head hurt.

Can you provide reasonable proof where I benefit (GA Pilot and
aircraft owner)?

You'll get to keep flying, thats a benefit.

If you read my treatise on this NPRM I refute the notion that it is a
safety benefit, that the increased accuracy is of any real world value
or that it offers me ANY benefit for the potential huge cost (TBD but
in the $9000 - $17000 range).

Couldnt pull it up.


Even the notion that it will benefit airlines is questionable.

???????? who do you fly for.

Ron Lee

"F. Baum" wrote:

On Dec 22, 12:12=A0pm, Larry Dighera wrote:

I'm still waiting for you to list the benefits to GA aircraft owners
that the FAA's ADS-B NPRM will provide. =A0If you are unable to list
them, I'll have to conclude that you agree that there are none.

Yea, you are right. Lets not modernize our airspace. If you take a
look at the NPRM and the FAA material on Next Gen you will see that it
benefits GA much more than the airlines. I dont know who you fly for,
but the airlines already have many of the Next Gen procedures are in
place. I dont mean to be sarcastic Larry, but when you fly an RNAV or
RNP procedure do you long for the good old days of vectors and
holding patterns ?
FB

FB, you have not shown the benefit to me...a GA pilot. Have you read
the NPRM?

Are you a GA pilot?

Do you own a GA aircraft?

Ron Lee

"F. Baum" wrote:

On Dec 22, 12:12=A0pm, Larry Dighera wrote:

I'm still waiting for you to list the benefits to GA aircraft owners
that the FAA's ADS-B NPRM will provide. =A0If you are unable to list
them, I'll have to conclude that you agree that there are none.

Yea, you are right. Lets not modernize our airspace. If you take a
look at the NPRM and the FAA material on Next Gen you will see that it
benefits GA much more than the airlines. I dont know who you fly for,
but the airlines already have many of the Next Gen procedures are in
place. I dont mean to be sarcastic Larry, but when you fly an RNAV or
RNP procedure do you long for the good old days of vectors and
holding patterns ?
FB

More questions FB.

Do you work for the FAA as a government employee, consultant or
supporting contractor?

Do you work for any company that will benefit from producing equipment
or otherwise providing ADS-B and/or Next Gen services?

Ron Lee

"F. Baum" wrote:

Can you provide reasonable proof where I benefit (GA Pilot and
aircraft owner)?

You'll get to keep flying, thats a benefit.

Great. We can only keep flying in the greatest aviation country in
the world if we roll over and meekly accept this idiotic NPRM.
Please do not ever get into a policy making position that would impact
me.

If you read my treatise on this NPRM I refute the notion that it is a
safety benefit, that the increased accuracy is of any real world value
or that it offers me ANY benefit for the potential huge cost (TBD but
in the $9000 - $17000 range).

Couldnt pull it up.

Page 56967 of the NPRM: " On the low end, the dollar value may
represent a software upgrade or OEM option change. On the high end,
the dollar value may represent a new installation of upgraded
transponder systems necessary to assure accuracy, reliability and
safety."

I interpreted this to mean that their range of costs of $4,328 to
$17,283 as shown on page 56963. I got the ballpark $9000 from a cost
of a Garmin ADS-B unit


Even the notion that it will benefit airlines is questionable.

???????? who do you fly for.

I read the NPRM and their supposed cost benefit documentation. I
don't fly for an airline but I can look at cost-benefit info and make
reasonable interpretations of their validity (in some cases).

Read my submittal on this NPRM and the entire NPRM.

Ron Lee

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message


Are you aware that the FAA's intent is to decommission most of their
radar once ADS-B is operational? ADS-B relies upon aircraft equipped
GPS receivers; radar relies on the physical reflection of radio waves
bouncing off of tangible objects. Which would you prefer to bet your
life on?

I'm not passing judgement on the ADS-B question, but relying on radar around
the DC area can get you in trouble (if not killed). Radar plots can be as
much as a mile off actual location, so I'm not convinced it's a superior
alternative to satellite tech (like GPS) despite the occasional solar
interference.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
http://sage1solutions.com/products
NEW! FlyteBalance v2.0 (W&B); FlyteLog v2.0 (Logbook)
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message


Agreed. But at least the DNC, unlike the RNC, lacks the hubris to
burglarize the opposition's election headquarters, or worse:

Not a fact in evidence. It just means they haven't been caught. Further, the
only evidence of RNC misbehavior you showed was 30+ years old. Hardly
earth-shaking.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
http://sage1solutions.com/products
NEW! FlyteBalance v2.0 (W&B); FlyteLog v2.0 (Logbook)
____________________