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#1
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Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"
kontiki wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote: Yea, we teach (or are suppose to teach) IFR pilots not to do that. Its not very helpful for the intended purpose (to let everyone know where you are). -Robert, CFII Flight instructors should at least tell their students about what IFR fixes are and where they are (at that airport). Its not rocket science and it will help the student in the long run. Better to give CTAF fixes in some universally recognized form... 5 miles out straight in for 22 beats the hell out of NAILR even if the guys in the pattern are instrument rated. If their flying VFR at some non-familiar airport you think they've studied all the approach charts for the airport to understand what fix you might be reporting. |
#2
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Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"
Robert M. Gary wrote:
Yea, we teach (or are suppose to teach) IFR pilots not to do that. Its not very helpful for the intended purpose (to let everyone know where you are). I was taught, and it was reinforced by the DE, to use distance and direction over waypoints. If you think about it, it's not difficult to do, as the distance from the named point to the airport is usually right on the plate. Also, since most of us have at least a VFR GPS onboard, we have another reference for distance out in between fixes. |
#3
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Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"
On Jan 15, 11:41*am, B A R R Y wrote:
I was taught, and it was reinforced by the DE, to use distance and direction over waypoints. That's good but just make sure you use waypoints that a VFR pilot would know (like VORs, etc). Remember the point is for traffic to know where you are so you don't want to use references that some pilots may not know. Personally I prefer using relative location to the airport, since you're only about 10 miles out anyway. -Robert |
#4
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Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Jan 15, 11:41 am, B A R R Y wrote: I was taught, and it was reinforced by the DE, to use distance and direction over waypoints. That's good but just make sure you use waypoints that a VFR pilot would know (like VORs, etc). Remember the point is for traffic to know where you are so you don't want to use references that some pilots may not know. Personally I prefer using relative location to the airport, since you're only about 10 miles out anyway. I only use ONE waypoint for airport calls, the airport. G |
#5
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Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"
"B A R R Y" wrote in message . net... I was taught, and it was reinforced by the DE, to use distance and direction over waypoints. If you think about it, it's not difficult to do, as the distance from the named point to the airport is usually right on the plate. But unless you state that your position was determined by GPS other pilots cannot be confident of the accuracy of your report. |
#6
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Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message ... On Jan 15, 11:02 am, wrote: I had NO CLUE where the planes actually were in relation to the airport. I didn't know if they were two minutes out or ten. A bit disconcerting when you want to take the active and fly the pattern. If wishes were horses this beggar would ask that IFR pilots report their positions (during VFR conditions) in a way us poor VFR only morons could understand. Yea, we teach (or are suppose to teach) IFR pilots not to do that. Its not very helpful for the intended purpose (to let everyone know where you are). From AC 90-42F Traffic Advisory Practices at Airports Without Operating Control Towers: 11. EXAMPLES OF SELF-ANNOUNCE PHRASEOLOGIES. (3) Practice Instrument Approach: STRAWN TRAFFIC, CESSNA TWO ONE FOUR THREE QUEBEC (NAME - FINAL APPROACH FIX) INBOUND DESCENDING THROUGH (ALTITUDE) PRACTICE (TYPE) APPROACH RUNWAY THREE FIVE STRAWN. |
#7
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Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"
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#8
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Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"
wrote in message ... ON a (barely) related aside regarding my ignorance of IFR terminology: I checked out in a 172 on Sunday, and while doing some landings at a non-towered local airport that had some published IFR approaches I'd hear planes calling their positions using IFR terminology. I had NO CLUE where the planes actually were in relation to the airport. I didn't know if they were two minutes out or ten. A bit disconcerting when you want to take the active and fly the pattern. If wishes were horses this beggar would ask that IFR pilots report their positions (during VFR conditions) in a way us poor VFR only morons could understand. Might be safer for all ... maybe might maybe ... By "this beggar would ask that IFR pilots report their positions (during VFR conditions) in a way us poor VFR only morons could understand" you probably mean distance in miles and the direction from the airport. The problem with that is you don't know how the other pilot determined his distance from the airport. Maybe he determined it with GPS or DME and the distance is quite accurate, but maybe it's just a guess. Here's an example. I'm an air traffic controller, I recall observing a 1200 code approach the Class C boundary as I was vectoring a Skyhawk for a practice ILS. Right after I called that traffic to the Skyhawk I get a call from an inbound VFR aircraft stating he's nineteen miles southwest of the field. I issue a beacon code and watch as the unknown VFR changes to that code, he's now a mile inside the Class C boundary, nine miles from the field. This is not an unusual occurrence, happens with all types of operators, this guy was even a local. When I'm flying at an uncontrolled field and I hear another pilot use "IFR terminology" to describe his position I know exactly where he is. When I hear another pilot use a direction and distance from the field without knowing how he determined his position I know where he THINKS he is, but not where he ACTUALLY is. They may be the same point or they may be far apart. There's no way to know. |
#9
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Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"
In article ,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote: [...] When I'm flying at an uncontrolled field and I hear another pilot use "IFR terminology" to describe his position I know exactly where he is. No -- you know where he says he is. That may not even be where he thinks he is, let alone where he actually is (said from personal experience). When I hear another pilot use a direction and distance from the field without knowing how he determined his position I know where he THINKS he is, but not where he ACTUALLY is. They may be the same point or they may be far apart. There's no way to know. Ditto for the IFR case. Hamish |
#10
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Phrase "landing runway" vs. "cleared to land"
"Hamish Reid" wrote in message ... No -- you know where he says he is. That may not even be where he thinks he is, let alone where he actually is (said from personal experience). He will be and say where his instruments indicate him to be. Ditto for the IFR case. Wrong. |
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