F-32 vs F-35

"The Raven" wrote
We all know that the X-35 won the JSF contest which is now in the
strategic
development phase as the F-35. At the time the competition winner was
announced (LM) I wondered why Boeing would scrap their whole concept
rather
than push forward with it.

Money of course. Both aircraft were very far from final production designs.
LM didn't get a $24B (that's Billion) FSD contract for nothing and Boeing
would be betting the company in staggering fashion...just to try and
duplicate Northrop's F-20 strategy.

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:55:26 -0500, "Paul F Austin"
wrote:


"The Raven" wrote
We all know that the X-35 won the JSF contest which is now in the
strategic
development phase as the F-35. At the time the competition winner was
announced (LM) I wondered why Boeing would scrap their whole concept
rather
than push forward with it.

Money of course. Both aircraft were very far from final production designs.
LM didn't get a $24B (that's Billion) FSD contract for nothing and Boeing
would be betting the company in staggering fashion...just to try and
duplicate Northrop's F-20 strategy.

Boeing should just start working on the B-52 replacement, instead of
trying to improve an aircraft that nobody will buy.

"Lyle" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:55:26 -0500, "Paul F Austin"
wrote:


"The Raven" wrote
We all know that the X-35 won the JSF contest which is now in the
strategic
development phase as the F-35. At the time the competition winner was
announced (LM) I wondered why Boeing would scrap their whole concept
rather
than push forward with it.

Money of course. Both aircraft were very far from final production
designs.
LM didn't get a $24B (that's Billion) FSD contract for nothing and Boeing
would be betting the company in staggering fashion...just to try and
duplicate Northrop's F-20 strategy.

Boeing should just start working on the B-52 replacement, instead of
trying to improve an aircraft that nobody will buy.

Well based on what's be said so far, without a firm order for a heap of
them, plus lots of USG R&D funding, it wouldn't be possible...........


--
The Raven
http://www.80scartoons.co.uk/batfinkquote.mp3
** President of the ozemail.* and uunet.* NG's
** since August 15th 2000.

The Raven wrote:
"Lyle" wrote in message
...

Boeing should just start working on the B-52 replacement, instead of
trying to improve an aircraft that nobody will buy.

Well based on what's be said so far, without a firm order for a heap
of them, plus lots of USG R&D funding, it wouldn't be
possible...........

True. They can do some coneptual work, looking at possible configurations
and so forth. A lot of that work would be done with low-level Air Force
study funding, though there might be some company funding as well. But they
won't start any serious design effort until the Air Force ponies up some
real cash. Which it plans to do sometime around 2013, last I had heard.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...rcraft/b-3.htm

Of course, the inital focus of a bomber replacement project will actually be
the B-2, which is scheduled to retire *before* the last B-52. The B-1 and
B-52 go out at about the same time a few years later.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 13:55:38 -0800, Lyle wrote:

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 18:55:26 -0500, "Paul F Austin"
wrote:


"The Raven" wrote
We all know that the X-35 won the JSF contest which is now in the
strategic
development phase as the F-35. At the time the competition winner was
announced (LM) I wondered why Boeing would scrap their whole concept
rather
than push forward with it.

Money of course. Both aircraft were very far from final production designs.
LM didn't get a $24B (that's Billion) FSD contract for nothing and Boeing
would be betting the company in staggering fashion...just to try and
duplicate Northrop's F-20 strategy.

Boeing should just start working on the B-52 replacement, instead of
trying to improve an aircraft that nobody will buy.

Oh, like the 8.6 Billion dollar contract that they just received for more
F/A-18s and development of the Ea-18G?? I think that Boeing has
far more expertise than you.

Al Minyard

"Paul F Austin" wrote in message
...

"The Raven" wrote
We all know that the X-35 won the JSF contest which is now in the
strategic
development phase as the F-35. At the time the competition winner was
announced (LM) I wondered why Boeing would scrap their whole concept
rather
than push forward with it.

Money of course. Both aircraft were very far from final production
designs.
LM didn't get a $24B (that's Billion) FSD contract for nothing and Boeing
would be betting the company in staggering fashion...just to try and
duplicate Northrop's F-20 strategy.

And the F20 was far less technologically risky than the X32.

tim gueguen 101867

Has an aircraft that lost a US (or any government fly-off) ever made it to
production?
"The Raven" wrote in message
...
We all know that the X-35 won the JSF contest which is now in the
strategic
development phase as the F-35. At the time the competition winner was
announced (LM) I wondered why Boeing would scrap their whole concept
rather
than push forward with it.

For various political reasons Boeing could have pushed forward with the
X-32
into other non-JSF (and friendly) markets. Imagine the competition that
potentially could be generated from an F32 vs F35 sale to foreign nations?
Imagines LM's concern that potential partners may decide it could be more
cost effective to go with an F32? Imagine the potential (albeit unlikely)
of
F32 going up against F35? Imagine the possibility of a second JSF-like
aircraft capability for the US to tap into if need be?

For Boeing, excluding any political over-rides, they could have had a
market
for their aircraft that competed directly against the F35 and/or eroded
some
of it's competitors market. Additionally, it could upset the supposed
superiority of the F35 by offering something (possibly) similar in
capability to the F35 than anything else.

So the question is, could there have economically been a market for the
F32
outside the US and would the US government have allowed Boeing to produce
such an aircraft?

My initial assumption is that the US government wouldn't allow Boeing to
do
such for reasons including: protecting LM's interests, ensuring that other
nations didn't end up with similar capabilities, and to protect US
"security".

--
The Raven
http://www.80scartoons.co.uk/batfinkquote.mp3
** President of the ozemail.* and uunet.* NG's
** since August 15th 2000.

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Has an aircraft that lost a US (or any government fly-off) ever made it to
production?

The B-32 (Dominator, IIRC) reached low production during WWII after being
bested by the B-29,; it even saw some combat use late in the war. I believe
if you look into WWII and preWWII decisions on production you will find
other examples where a "lesser performer" was entered into production to
either ensure agianst the possibility of later technical concerns sidelining
the better aircraft (as was the case with the B-32), or to take advantage of
other industrial capabilities (i.e., inline versus radial engine production
could impact the decsision to produce a lesser performer). In modern times
the F-18 is a direct descendent of the losing YF-17 in the LWF competition
that saw the F-16 win. The US Army's LOH competition in the early sixties
saw the Hughes OH-6 defeat the Bell 206 for the award of the contract, but
the 206 later became a very successful aircraft, eventually ironically
replacing, in its OH/AH-58 guise, the same OH-6 that it had originally lost
out to.

Brooks

snip

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Has an aircraft that lost a US (or any government fly-off) ever made it to
production?

Well.......
I guess it depends on how strictly you wish to interpret the question.
Clearly there were a lot of US built products during WWII that
never saw any real service with US forces.

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 16:12:09 -0000, Ian wrote:
Has an aircraft that lost a US (or any government fly-off) ever made it to
production?

The Heinkel He 112 saw limited production, IIRC.

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