Complex endorsement: what is so special about flaps?

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in news:da3b9741-1ac7-4b99-9a1e-
:

On Feb 24, 6:21*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

No, definitely in the early to mid seventies. They may have been
modified and tweaked in the nineties, but they were definitely around in
the seventies. I had to sign quite a few guys off in the Stearman for
horsepower only, for instance. There was a major rejigging of the regs
around 73 or so. Before that, for instance, if you had a flight
instructor raing you could teach in anything you had a rating for.

My wife's grandfather held a commercial ticket with a flight
instructor rating. He still shows up on registry.faa.gov but it says
something like "Instructor rating not valid after 197x". I assume that
is when they introduced the instructor certificate. However, it makes
sense to say if you are rated to fly a ME plane and you have some the
ability to teach then why do you need a different checkride for the
MEI.

I'd say there was a string of mishaps that guided them in that direction,
as always.
The guys who had been instructing were exempt from having to take
checkrides, I believe, but they would have to renew from that date forward.
IOW if they had been doing ME instruction they automaticaly got a CFI ME
and if they had so many instrument instructing hours they got a II, but i
was amongst the first in the new system so it was all of only academic
interest to me.

Bertie

On 2008-02-24, es330td wrote:
I read the the complex endorsement involves being instructed in
retractable gear, flaps and constant speed prop. I'm learning to fly
in a C172, which has flaps, so it seems unusual to me that flaps are
specified in the complex rating given that I have been using them
since day one.

It's a minimum level of complexity - retract gear AND controllable prop
AND flaps - three major systems a 'non complex' may not have
that must be manipulated for each takeoff and landing.

It may seem a bit arbitrary, but many of the rules do.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

buttman wrote:


Its a holdover from the olden days when flaps weren't standard
equipment, as they are now. In the next few months/years the FAA is
supposed to redo part 61, and many believe they will change the
complex requirement to something more modern.

The rules were rewritten in 95 (effective 97) and all they did
is split 200HP from the rest of complex. The last round of
Part 61 changes (mostly instrument currency and training) proposed
don't seem to have any attempt to change this.

es330td wrote:
I read the the complex endorsement involves being instructed in
retractable gear, flaps and constant speed prop. I'm learning to fly
in a C172, which has flaps, so it seems unusual to me that flaps are
specified in the complex rating given that I have been using them
since day one.

The only reasons I can guess that this is pointed out are that A:
people learn to fly in planes without flaps or B: flaps are "one more
thing to worry about" and so the definition includes all three to make
sure the pilot can handle multiple things to worry about in the small
amount of time one has to land a plane. I'm leaning toward B but
thought I'd ask here.

When I first started flying I thought that complex was FAA-speak for
retractable. Eventually I came to realize that it wasn't but spent many
years wondering why a retractable gear aircraft with a fixed pitch prop
wasn't complex.

What it really comes down to, as you pointed out in your message, is a
complex aircraft is just that: complex. Meaning you have a lot to do,
especially during take off and landing. Manipulating gear, flaps, and
prop adds workload. It's not difficult once you get used to it, but the
first time you have add another system to the mix requires some effort.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## CP-ASEL-IA, CFI-A, AGI
## insert tail number here
## KHAO, KISZ
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by
stupidity."
-- Hanlon's Razor

Ron Natalie wrote:
buttman wrote:


Its a holdover from the olden days when flaps weren't standard
equipment, as they are now. In the next few months/years the FAA is
supposed to redo part 61, and many believe they will change the
complex requirement to something more modern.

The rules were rewritten in 95 (effective 97) and all they did
is split 200HP from the rest of complex.

Which was a pain in my club, where the only craft readily available for
a complex endorsement was the 200 HP 177RG. Had to get the HP one
separately in a 182.