Slips and skids

On Mar 15, 10:57 pm, wrote:

I think the more bottom rudder you give in a turn, the more the nose
will appear to move lower against a given horizon. All the rudder does
is pull the plane around an axis from ear-to-ear.

The rudder is intended to control adverse yaw, not to turn the
airplane. Banking the airplane turns it. Some airplanes, the "idiot-
proof" ones, sometimes need no rudder at all in a turn.

Dan

On Mar 16, 3:41 pm, wrote:
On Mar 15, 10:57 pm, wrote:

I think the more bottom rudder you give in a turn, the more the nose
will appear to move lower against a given horizon. All the rudder does
is pull the plane around an axis from ear-to-ear.

The rudder is intended to control adverse yaw, not to turn the
airplane. Banking the airplane turns it. Some airplanes, the "idiot-
proof" ones, sometimes need no rudder at all in a turn.

Dan

Actually, I beg to differ. Banking rotates the airplane about its
longitudinal axis. Yawing rotates about its vertical axis. Neither of
these causes the airplane to change heading. It is the aerodynamic
forces that streamlines the airplane with the relative wind is what
makes it turn (ie weather vaning).

For comparison, think of the space shuttle banking or yawing in orbit.
This does not change its heading because there is no streamlining
effect.

Andrew Sarangan wrote in news:2a91a319-e4ad-48a0-
:

On Mar 16, 3:41 pm, wrote:
On Mar 15, 10:57 pm, wrote:

I think the more bottom rudder you give in a turn, the more the
nose
will appear to move lower against a given horizon. All the rudder
does
is pull the plane around an axis from ear-to-ear.

The rudder is intended to control adverse yaw, not to turn the
airplane. Banking the airplane turns it. Some airplanes, the "idiot-
proof" ones, sometimes need no rudder at all in a turn.

Dan

Actually, I beg to differ. Banking rotates the airplane about its
longitudinal axis. Yawing rotates about its vertical axis. Neither of
these causes the airplane to change heading. It is the aerodynamic
forces that streamlines the airplane with the relative wind is what
makes it turn (ie weather vaning).

For comparison, think of the space shuttle banking or yawing in orbit.
This does not change its heading because there is no streamlining
effect.





Also because there's no lift under the wings!

You can happily do a flat turn in a lot of airplanes. Wings level and
stomp on the rudder and around it will come. Some will even do it faster
with the outboard wing down a bit. I sued to do this in supercubs and
citabrias when towing so's i could enter the pattern at some insane
speed on base and then scrub it off base to final



Bertie

On Mar 16, 1:47 pm, Andrew Sarangan wrote:
On Mar 16, 3:41 pm, wrote:

On Mar 15, 10:57 pm, wrote:

I think the more bottom rudder you give in a turn, the more the nose
will appear to move lower against a given horizon. All the rudder does
is pull the plane around an axis from ear-to-ear.

The rudder is intended to control adverse yaw, not to turn the
airplane. Banking the airplane turns it. Some airplanes, the "idiot-
proof" ones, sometimes need no rudder at all in a turn.

Dan

Actually, I beg to differ. Banking rotates the airplane about its
longitudinal axis. Yawing rotates about its vertical axis. Neither of
these causes the airplane to change heading. It is the aerodynamic
forces that streamlines the airplane with the relative wind is what
makes it turn (ie weather vaning).

For comparison, think of the space shuttle banking or yawing in orbit.
This does not change its heading because there is no streamlining
effect.


http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/4forces.html#note64 Section 4.3

http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/yaw.html#sec-yaw-stability Section 8.2

The bank moves the airplane sideways. The fin, moved sideways,
points the airplane in the new direction. The rudder controls adverse
yaw, which tends to drag the nose away from the turn.

Dan

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:47:41 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Sarangan
wrote:

Banking rotates the airplane about its
longitudinal axis. Yawing rotates about its vertical axis. Neither of
these causes the airplane to change heading. It is the aerodynamic
forces that streamlines the airplane with the relative wind is what
makes it turn (ie weather vaning).

And here I always thought it was the lift vector being tilted to one
side of vertical that caused the airplane to turn. :-)

On Mar 15, 4:38*pm, William Hung wrote:
I have heard definitions for both, but I'm still confused. *Anyone
care to elaborate?

Wil

A lot of good inputs, I'm going to need some time...

Thanks all,
Wil