General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:52:27 -0700, Ed Rasimus
wrote:

On 30 Jan 2004 22:40:41 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 1/30/04 1:53 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: OnASb.13425$Q_4.11977@okepread03

When pressed about what happened to his medals, Kerry now says
the medals he threw away were not his and that his are displayed in his
Senate office.

Retired General George S. Patton III would later angrily charge that
Kerry's actions had "given aid and comfort to the enemy."

Supremely arrogant and demonstrably contemptuous of the voting public,
Kerry nevertheless regularly touts his military experience during his
presidential run. But he forfeited the right to do that 30 years ago.

And just what were your war exploits? Anything? What he did in combat no one
denies. And he is a hero and a fine soldier and leader of men as a result. And
where do you stand in terms of military acheivement against Lt. Kerry?.

Arthur Kramer

Well, Art, I think my military achievements qualify me to speak, and I
agree fully with General Patton's estimation of the honor and
integrity of Senator Kerry. The simple hypocrisy of the medal throwing
incident, using someone else's medals, followed by the prominent
display of the awards in his office for political expediency reduces
the man in my mind.

And, I might add that several hundred military aviators from the
period that I regularly correspond with in an email listserv, AF,
Navy, Marine and Army, are united in their disdain for the Senator.
The former POWs in the group in particular are bothered by the acts of
Senator Kerry.

As for the possession of the awards in the first place, we might wish
to recall that LBJ had a Silver Star as well, although his was won for
being a passenger on a mission in the combat zone, not necessarily a
combat mission. And Lt. Kerry's three Purple Hearts, it has been
reported in a number of sources recently resulted in no missed duty
days--it's a puzzlement.


Frank Burns' egg "shell fragments" come to mind ;-)

For a full description of LBJ's Silver Star Mission see "Means of Assent" by
Robert A Caro. The Silver Star Johnson got was a gift from Douglas
MacArthur and was most assuredly not deserved. (Johnson was a congressman
from Texas at the time).

Jack


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On 30 Jan 2004 22:40:41 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 1/30/04 1:53 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: OnASb.13425$Q_4.11977@okepread03

When pressed about what happened to his medals, Kerry now says
the medals he threw away were not his and that his are displayed in his
Senate office.

Retired General George S. Patton III would later angrily charge that
Kerry's actions had "given aid and comfort to the enemy."

Supremely arrogant and demonstrably contemptuous of the voting public,
Kerry nevertheless regularly touts his military experience during his
presidential run. But he forfeited the right to do that 30 years ago.

And just what were your war exploits? Anything? What he did in combat
no one
denies. And he is a hero and a fine soldier and leader of men as a
result. And
where do you stand in terms of military acheivement against Lt. Kerry?.

Arthur Kramer

Well, Art, I think my military achievements qualify me to speak, and I
agree fully with General Patton's estimation of the honor and
integrity of Senator Kerry. The simple hypocrisy of the medal throwing
incident, using someone else's medals, followed by the prominent
display of the awards in his office for political expediency reduces
the man in my mind.

And, I might add that several hundred military aviators from the
period that I regularly correspond with in an email listserv, AF,
Navy, Marine and Army, are united in their disdain for the Senator.
The former POWs in the group in particular are bothered by the acts of
Senator Kerry.

As for the possession of the awards in the first place, we might wish
to recall that LBJ had a Silver Star as well, although his was won for
being a passenger on a mission in the combat zone, not necessarily a
combat mission. And Lt. Kerry's three Purple Hearts, it has been
reported in a number of sources recently resulted in no missed duty
days--it's a puzzlement.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"ArtKramr" wrote

And just what were your war exploits? Anything?

I never had to fix bayonets, and the only close call on my demise
was a Patriot missile misfire, and a Scud. I served 21 years faithfully, as
an aircrewmember in every war from 78 to 93. While I never dropped
ordinance, my crew did assist in four Mig kills, and two SAR saves.

When I retired I did not show up at anti-government rallies and throw
my medals at the steps of Congress.

What he did in combat no one denies. And he is a hero and a fine
soldier and leader of men as a result.

So you don't think giving aid and comfort to the enemy is a bad thing?
If Lt Kerry is a good American, then Jane Fonda is also a fine American.

And where do you stand in terms of military acheivement against
Lt. Kerry?

This seems important to you, but it's merely a rephrasing of the first
question above. I never went to anti-government rallies and throw my
medals at Congress, and then turn around and declare myself a war
hero. Does that count?

"S. Sampson" wrote in message news:l_CSb.13432$Q_4.6831@okepread03...
...

So you don't think giving aid and comfort to the enemy is a bad thing?
If Lt Kerry is a good American, then Jane Fonda is also a fine American.


I dunno what he thinks.

But I do know that petitioning one's government to withdraw from a
war is not giving aid and comfort to the enemy and it is thoroughly
unAmerican to suggest such a thing. None-the-less, here in America,
you are free to voice unAmerican sentiments.

IMHO John Kerry displayed his patriotism both in his military service,
and in his subsequent protest against continued military action by
the US in Vietnam.


This seems important to you, but it's merely a rephrasing of the first
question above. I never went to anti-government rallies and throw my
medals at Congress, and then turn around and declare myself a war
hero. Does that count?

Are you at ease with your conscience?

--

FF

From: (Fred the Red Shirt)
Date: 2/10/2004 3:41 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

"S. Sampson" wrote in message
news:l_CSb.13432$Q_4.6831@okepread03...
...

So you don't think giving aid and comfort to the enemy is a bad thing?
If Lt Kerry is a good American, then Jane Fonda is also a fine American.


I dunno what he thinks.

But I do know that petitioning one's government to withdraw from a
war is not giving aid and comfort to the enemy and it is thoroughly
unAmerican to suggest such a thing. None-the-less, here in America,
you are free to voice unAmerican sentiments.

IMHO John Kerry displayed his patriotism both in his military service,
and in his subsequent protest against continued military action by
the US in Vietnam.


This seems important to you, but it's merely a rephrasing of the first
question above. I never went to anti-government rallies and throw my
medals at Congress, and then turn around and declare myself a war
hero. Does that count?

Are you at ease with your conscience?

--

FF

Agreed as far as that goes. However kerry testified in Congress that the U.S.
military was deliberately committing "attrocities" as policy. He provided no
proof. THAT is providing comfort to the enemy.

As far as I am concerned he stabbed us all in the back.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On 11 Feb 2004 00:25:12 GMT, (B2431) wrote:

From: (Fred the Red Shirt)
Date: 2/10/2004 3:41 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

"S. Sampson" wrote in message
news:l_CSb.13432$Q_4.6831@okepread03...
...

So you don't think giving aid and comfort to the enemy is a bad thing?
If Lt Kerry is a good American, then Jane Fonda is also a fine American.


I dunno what he thinks.

But I do know that petitioning one's government to withdraw from a
war is not giving aid and comfort to the enemy and it is thoroughly
unAmerican to suggest such a thing. None-the-less, here in America,
you are free to voice unAmerican sentiments.

IMHO John Kerry displayed his patriotism both in his military service,
and in his subsequent protest against continued military action by
the US in Vietnam.


This seems important to you, but it's merely a rephrasing of the first
question above. I never went to anti-government rallies and throw my
medals at Congress, and then turn around and declare myself a war
hero. Does that count?

Are you at ease with your conscience?

--

FF

Agreed as far as that goes. However kerry testified in Congress that the U.S.
military was deliberately committing "attrocities" as policy. He provided no
proof. THAT is providing comfort to the enemy.

As far as I am concerned he stabbed us all in the back.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I whole heartedly agree, and his association with hanoi jane
makes him all the more repugnant.

Al Minyard

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: (Fred the Red Shirt)
Date: 2/10/2004 3:41 PM Central Standard Time


Agreed as far as that goes. However kerry testified in Congress that the U.S.
military was deliberately committing "attrocities" as policy. He provided no
proof. THAT is providing comfort to the enemy.


When a person testifies before the Congress that person does not get
to choose the questions he will be asked. He can choose to answer
them truthfully, or to commit perjury. AFAIK, unlike the courts,
the Congress has always accepted hearsay testimony, and opinion.
For instance, whether or not the use of napalm is an attrocity is
a matter of opinion. At the time, many other nations had abandoned
the use of incindiery weapons, being of the opinion that such use
was an atrocity and violated prohibitions against weapons that
caused 'excess suffering'.

Thus far, no one has made a claim that Kerry alleged he had witnessed
acts which he did not, only that he believed that they had taken place.


As far as I am concerned he stabbed us all in the back.


If he did his best to tell what he believed to be the truth then
he did his duty befor the Congress.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I was born a year too late to be drafted, and never volunteered to
serve in uniform. Those of you who have, have earned my respect
and gratitude many times over. That includes Kerry. I appreciate
that you may not like the idea that I think of you in the same way.
That is unfortunate, perhaps even ironic, as it is the sacrifices
you made that kept me free to voice that opinion.

--

FF

"ArtKramr" wrote

And just what were your war exploits? Anything?

I am less of an American than General Patton III if that is
what you mean, but I respect his views on Kerry.

And just what were your war exploits? Anything? What he did in combat no
one
denies. And he is a hero and a fine soldier and leader of men as a result.
And
where do you stand in terms of military acheivement against Lt. Kerry?.

Actually Art, he was a sailor.

R / John

Didn't Patton die in 1945??

Making all of this a little suspect.


"S. Sampson" wrote in message
news:OnASb.13425$Q_4.11977@okepread03...
In May 1972, the Boston Phoenix reported that Kerry had defiantly
given his medals back to the U.S. government during one of his many
protests. New York Times columnist Bill Keller wrote in September
2002 that the senator invited him to view 40 minutes of films Kerry
made depicting his war exploits. Keller wrote that anti-war doves
would still support the man they remembered for "throwing his war
ribbons onto the steps of the Capitol."

When pressed about what happened to his medals, Kerry now says
the medals he threw away were not his and that his are displayed in his
Senate office.

Retired General George S. Patton III would later angrily charge that
Kerry's actions had "given aid and comfort to the enemy."

Supremely arrogant and demonstrably contemptuous of the voting public,
Kerry nevertheless regularly touts his military experience during his
presidential run. But he forfeited the right to do that 30 years ago.

Come to think of it, if he continues to posture as a war hero, he'll lose
the friendship of Ramsey Clark, Angela Davis, and the Daily World.