glider simulators

On May 4, 6:57 am, Tony Verhulst wrote:
Bill Daniels wrote:
... There's a
whole hobby of building realistic cockpits to go with this simulator.

Would those hobbyists have web sites?

Tony V

Here's one for starters: (major link reconstruction needed; not a
glider cockpit, but...)
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...icial%26sa%3DG

I have been working on a related project, to use one's own sailplane
as a cockpit for a simulator, with one's own instruments/controls.
What I am designing is a piece of hardware that will generate the
associated dynamic/static/TE/and capacity pressure values that would
exist during "in flight" conditions (Condor outputs standard sim
signals which could easily be translated into their associated
pressure values). These pressures can be fed to an actual instrument
panel, making the instruments read correct for their given simulated
condition quite effectively. Since Condor also outputs NEMA data,
flight computers/nav hardware can also be active. This will be used in
conjunction with little (sugar cube sized) independent self powered
pizeo gyros with bluetooth (or some other sort of RF) transmitting
capabilities that would each be placed on the extremities of all the
cockpit controls. The transmitted signals would all be received by a
device that would be converting the gyro's movements into standard
simulator control inputs that would be fed back into Condor for your
flight inputs.

To make clear my project goals in case it's still vague: I want to be
able to use my own glider with it's controls and instruments to fly on
the simulator. This wold be achieved by pulling the plane into the
"drive in theater" (a screen on a large wall with a projector set up)
and connect the pneumatic interface to my plane's pneumatic system and
put the pizeo gyros described above on their respective controls. Go
through a calibration sequence to define the full movements of the
controls, buckle in and begin checklist...Once this is closer to being
finished I will also work on the feedback issue, which I already have
several ideas. This glider in this setup could easily be changed to
another ship so long as flight data for it exists on Condor (very easy
if it already has a Winter quick pneumatic disconnect plug...) If
anyone that reads this finds it intriguing and would like to help, pm
me.

Paul

I wrote a nice response but can't seem to post it... I'll keep
trying...

--Noel

Sorry for multiple posts - Google isn't telling me why it won't post
my response so I'm breaking it into pieces to find out what's causing
the problem
----------

The Forums on the Condor website area great source of info for this
stuff!

Force feedback controls are only marginally useful, IMHO.

Any standard joystick with a few buttons is plenty good enough. I
_strongly_ recommend against getting a "twist" joystick, as
controlling a glider with one of those is too distracting (and can
introduce bad habits).

I also strongly advise people to go out and buy a set of CH Pro Pedals
for rudder control (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/pedals.html).
They're not cheap (~$150), but they'll last a lifetime and are very
precise. Use them along with a simple joystick and you're all set for
some great Condor flying.

Joystick features that are nice to have: A "hat" for view control,
and a "throttle" control for moving the spoilers. I also like a
joystick with at least 5 or 6 buttons (so I can put flap and trim
controls on the joystick).

Optional extra for the technologically advanced: NaturalPoint
"TrackIR" (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/). This is an infrared
camera that you put on your computer monitor. It watches a reflective
head-band or headset-clip that you wear, and uses your head movements
to let you "look around" freely.

I recommend people get comfortable with Condor first before adding
this layer of complexity and configuration - but once you get used to
it, its nice! I mean, how many times in a flight simulator have you
wished that you could just turn your head a little to keep an eye on
the runway threshold out the side of the airplane while on downwind or
turning base? This lets you do that effortlessly (and so much more).
But it does take some work to set up and fine-tune for your individual
tastes - so start with the joystick "hat" and then progress to this if
you want.

Take care,

--Noel
(PIlot and former computer-game developer)

P.S. I also recommend a wide-screen LCD monitor. Human vision is
attuned to wide peripheral vision and standard screens don't do a poor
job of matching the eye. Even a small (17" or 19") wide-screen
monitor is an improvement over a medium-sized "standard" monitor, when
it comes to simulating movement.

On May 4, 9:03 am, "noel.wade" wrote:

P.S. I also recommend a wide-screen LCD monitor. Human vision is
attuned to wide peripheral vision and standard screens don't do a poor
job of matching the eye. Even a small (17" or 19") wide-screen

Gah, correction: Standard screens _don't do a GOOD job_ of matching
the eye... :-P

--Noel

"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
. ..
Bill Daniels wrote:
... There's a whole hobby of building realistic cockpits to go with this
simulator.


Would those hobbyists have web sites?



There is a forum on the Condor web site devoted to "cockpit builders"

http://forum.condorsoaring.com/viewforum.php?f=14

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

sisu1a wrote:
On May 4, 6:57 am, Tony Verhulst wrote:
Bill Daniels wrote:
... There's a
whole hobby of building realistic cockpits to go with this simulator.
Would those hobbyists have web sites?

Tony V

Here's one for starters: (major link reconstruction needed; not a
glider cockpit, but...)
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...icial%26sa%3DG


My club has an L23 fuselage wreck and we're in the planning stage of
chopping off all abaft the rear cockpit, hooking the controls up to
Condor (or something similar) and projecting local scenery on screens
around the cockpit. Something like Cambridge (UK) has done.

Tony V.
http://soargbsc.com

Hey, Paul

If you get that pitot/static airdata air pump thingy working, I'd like to
hear about it. It would be a really great way to learn to use a new
vario/flight computer.

Bill D

"sisu1a" wrote in message
...
On May 4, 6:57 am, Tony Verhulst wrote:
Bill Daniels wrote:
... There's a
whole hobby of building realistic cockpits to go with this simulator.

Would those hobbyists have web sites?

Tony V

Here's one for starters: (major link reconstruction needed; not a
glider cockpit, but...)
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...icial%26sa%3DG

I have been working on a related project, to use one's own sailplane
as a cockpit for a simulator, with one's own instruments/controls.
What I am designing is a piece of hardware that will generate the
associated dynamic/static/TE/and capacity pressure values that would
exist during "in flight" conditions (Condor outputs standard sim
signals which could easily be translated into their associated
pressure values). These pressures can be fed to an actual instrument
panel, making the instruments read correct for their given simulated
condition quite effectively. Since Condor also outputs NEMA data,
flight computers/nav hardware can also be active. This will be used in
conjunction with little (sugar cube sized) independent self powered
pizeo gyros with bluetooth (or some other sort of RF) transmitting
capabilities that would each be placed on the extremities of all the
cockpit controls. The transmitted signals would all be received by a
device that would be converting the gyro's movements into standard
simulator control inputs that would be fed back into Condor for your
flight inputs.

To make clear my project goals in case it's still vague: I want to be
able to use my own glider with it's controls and instruments to fly on
the simulator. This wold be achieved by pulling the plane into the
"drive in theater" (a screen on a large wall with a projector set up)
and connect the pneumatic interface to my plane's pneumatic system and
put the pizeo gyros described above on their respective controls. Go
through a calibration sequence to define the full movements of the
controls, buckle in and begin checklist...Once this is closer to being
finished I will also work on the feedback issue, which I already have
several ideas. This glider in this setup could easily be changed to
another ship so long as flight data for it exists on Condor (very easy
if it already has a Winter quick pneumatic disconnect plug...) If
anyone that reads this finds it intriguing and would like to help, pm
me.

Paul

On May 4, 3:44 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
Hey, Paul

If you get that pitot/static airdata air pump thingy working, I'd like to
hear about it. It would be a really great way to learn to use a new
vario/flight computer.

Hi Bill,

I joined the Condor group and posted my thoughts on the subject in a
little more detail on the cockpit builder's forum (then had to update
my post after reading your original post on the subject...) On the
Condor forum I saw your original inquiry as to an interface device to
turn sim signals into the correct pressures (to enable the use real
pneumatic instruments for a sim/etc) seemed to be abandoned due to
'perceived' difficulties in achieving the correct pressures since they
were dubbed too small to be precisely controlled. I do not see this as
a problem, but an asset. Rather than the pump idea (which does seem
problematic) my proposed system is based on C-N-C controlled (via ball
screw lead) plungers. Since the values are rather small, rather small
components are required to build it. It is actually quite easy to make
extremely small and precise pressure changes with a plunger, and with
a pressure transducer feedback loop will remain exactly on desired
target.

I fully agree that this would be a great way to test out new
instruments and such in addition to being a damn fun sim tool! If
coupled to Condor, (or other soaring sims with NEMA outputs?) even
complicated flight computers could be tricked into going through all
their functions, although some may also require tricking the compass
as well (a C-N-C controlled steel bar to generate a "false north" in
axis around heading sensor if so equipped?). I'll definitely share
when I have more to tell.

Paul Hanson

On May 2, 10:09*am, Phillip LaBerge wrote:
Does anyone know of a good flight simulator program for a laptop? I
have several pre-solo students who are big in flight simulator
programs for powered airplanes and there seem to be a few programs on
the net for gliders. Any opinions on which one is the best would be
appreciated.
Phillip LaBerge


I've tried Microsoft, Silent Wings and a German one whose name I
forgot. Condor is by far the best, and getting better each day.
I use a force feedback joystick, pedals, a reclined seat in front of a
60" screen. It is almost like the real thing.