Experimental FAA registration

On Jun 11, 2:37*pm, wrote:
Andrew,

Regarding specifically Experimental Exhibition and Racing certificated
gliders that were certificated after July 19, 1993;

Take a look at The Order 8130.2F, CHG 3, Paragraph 161. subparagraph
(37) (page 178) regarding the annual program letter requirement. Looks
to me like if you just do proficiency flying all summer and don't go
to a "sanctioned meet", you might be OK with your original letter. Of
course, per subparagraph (34) that pro flying takes place within a 300
mile radius of your home base airport. Subparagraph (35) is also
interesting reading, but in any case, all the paragraphs have to be
read together in detail ad nauseum to make any sense *- and then we
realize we are reading FAA guidance, so making sense may not be the
preferred task outcome.

Don't forget your copy of the "highlighted aeronautical chart" that
you carry with you aboard the aircraft per 161.(37).

While paragraph 132 may appear to be in conflict with the above -
we'll just go with the guidance specific to Exhibition and Racing
certificates, and even more specific to Group 1: Performance
Competition Aircraft, which iswhat the racing glider is defines as by
the FAA..

Paragraph 155.(c) (page 166) states that when the aircraft's base of
operation is changed or a change in ownership occurs, the owner must
notify the local FSDO and provide a copy of the inspection program (if
applicable, not likely for a glider, unless it's a turbine powered
glider) and a copy of the requested proficiency flight area.

Call your local FSDO for guidance specific to their area of operation.
Some FSDO's and aircraft Ops Limitations differ because The Order
allows it, see Paragraph 161, suparagraph a. (page 172) where it
states "The FAA Inspector may impose any additional limitations deemed
necessary in the interest of safety."

Jim

I'm speculating that if you do have a crash and the FAA determines
that you are out of compliance on your LOA and hence your
certificate of airworthiness that your insurance company may NOT cover
your claims?

That would be the most compeling reason to make sure you have the
proper LOA filed with the FAA.

I don't know anything about what insurance companies will do, but if
you have an accident and the FAA determines you were not operating in
accordance with your operating limitations, then you may have problems
with the FAA.

Jim


I'm speculating that if you do have a crash and the FAA determines
that you are out of compliance on your LOA and hence your
certificate of airworthiness that your insurance company may NOT cover
your claims?

That would be the most compeling reason to make sure you have the
proper LOA filed with the FAA.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

At 16:18 12 June 2008, jb92563 wrote:
On Jun 11, 2:37=A0pm, wrote:
Andrew,

Regarding specifically Experimental Exhibition and Racing certificated
gliders that were certificated after July 19, 1993;

Take a look at The Order 8130.2F, CHG 3, Paragraph 161. subparagraph
(37) (page 178) regarding the annual program letter requirement. Looks
to me like if you just do proficiency flying all summer and don't go
to a "sanctioned meet", you might be OK with your original letter.
Of
course, per subparagraph (34) that pro flying takes place within a 300
mile radius of your home base airport. Subparagraph (35) is also
interesting reading, but in any case, all the paragraphs have to be
read together in detail ad nauseum to make any sense =A0- and then we
realize we are reading FAA guidance, so making sense may not be the
preferred task outcome.

Don't forget your copy of the "highlighted aeronautical chart" that
you carry with you aboard the aircraft per 161.(37).

While paragraph 132 may appear to be in conflict with the above -
we'll just go with the guidance specific to Exhibition and Racing
certificates, and even more specific to Group 1: Performance
Competition Aircraft, which iswhat the racing glider is defines as by
the FAA..

Paragraph 155.(c) (page 166) states that when the aircraft's base of
operation is changed or a change in ownership occurs, the owner must
notify the local FSDO and provide a copy of the inspection program (if
applicable, not likely for a glider, unless it's a turbine powered
glider) and a copy of the requested proficiency flight area.

Call your local FSDO for guidance specific to their area of operation.
Some FSDO's and aircraft Ops Limitations differ because The Order
allows it, see Paragraph 161, suparagraph a. (page 172) where it
states "The FAA Inspector may impose any additional limitations
deemed
necessary in the interest of safety."

Jim

I'm speculating that if you do have a crash and the FAA determines
that you are out of compliance on your LOA and hence your
certificate of airworthiness that your insurance company may NOT cover
your claims?

That would be the most compeling reason to make sure you have the
proper LOA filed with the FAA.


hello Jim thanks for pointing out 161.37 in that Order to me. I confess
that I had not read the entire Order. Personally I'd say the operative
word is 'update' rather than 'annual'. Ie if there is no update, no
annual letter is required. I intentionally made my own letter very broad,
with the plan that futher updates would not be needed, per para 35. I also
included the words 'If you have questions, or need any further
information, please let me know' to put the onus for updates back on the
FAA. I heard nothing back, so I would argue that they accepted that. The
real fact is that no one read my letter. But that is ok. I know the people
in my local FSDO, and they are helpful and supportive with things that
genuinely matter, and I try to be the same, and don't plan to send them
unnecessary letters. If the SSA had any competence and use, they would
maybe provide help with stuff like this, like a form letter we could use,
instead of soaking up our money on a trash magazine and selling us
'merchandise'. Regards, andrew


andrew

Yes, Andrew, I agree with all of that. Some FSDO's want more than
others and some read the letters, others have much bigger fish to fry.
All depends on where you're at; or where they're at in the scheme of
things. Problems come when there is a problem, then everything gets
read and analyzed. Best to avoid problems in my opinion.

Jim.

On Jun 12, 9:58 pm, Andrew Wood wrote:
At 16:18 12 June 2008, jb92563 wrote:



On Jun 11, 2:37=A0pm, wrote:
Andrew,

Regarding specifically Experimental Exhibition and Racing certificated
gliders that were certificated after July 19, 1993;

Take a look at The Order 8130.2F, CHG 3, Paragraph 161. subparagraph
(37) (page 178) regarding the annual program letter requirement. Looks
to me like if you just do proficiency flying all summer and don't go
to a "sanctioned meet", you might be OK with your original letter.
Of
course, per subparagraph (34) that pro flying takes place within a 300
mile radius of your home base airport. Subparagraph (35) is also
interesting reading, but in any case, all the paragraphs have to be
read together in detail ad nauseum to make any sense =A0- and then we
realize we are reading FAA guidance, so making sense may not be the
preferred task outcome.

Don't forget your copy of the "highlighted aeronautical chart" that
you carry with you aboard the aircraft per 161.(37).

While paragraph 132 may appear to be in conflict with the above -
we'll just go with the guidance specific to Exhibition and Racing
certificates, and even more specific to Group 1: Performance
Competition Aircraft, which iswhat the racing glider is defines as by
the FAA..

Paragraph 155.(c) (page 166) states that when the aircraft's base of
operation is changed or a change in ownership occurs, the owner must
notify the local FSDO and provide a copy of the inspection program (if
applicable, not likely for a glider, unless it's a turbine powered
glider) and a copy of the requested proficiency flight area.

Call your local FSDO for guidance specific to their area of operation.
Some FSDO's and aircraft Ops Limitations differ because The Order
allows it, see Paragraph 161, suparagraph a. (page 172) where it
states "The FAA Inspector may impose any additional limitations
deemed
necessary in the interest of safety."

Jim

I'm speculating that if you do have a crash and the FAA determines
that you are out of compliance on your LOA and hence your
certificate of airworthiness that your insurance company may NOT cover
your claims?

That would be the most compeling reason to make sure you have the
proper LOA filed with the FAA.

hello Jim thanks for pointing out 161.37 in that Order to me. I confess
that I had not read the entire Order. Personally I'd say the operative
word is 'update' rather than 'annual'. Ie if there is no update, no
annual letter is required. I intentionally made my own letter very broad,
with the plan that futher updates would not be needed, per para 35. I also
included the words 'If you have questions, or need any further
information, please let me know' to put the onus for updates back on the
FAA. I heard nothing back, so I would argue that they accepted that. The
real fact is that no one read my letter. But that is ok. I know the people
in my local FSDO, and they are helpful and supportive with things that
genuinely matter, and I try to be the same, and don't plan to send them
unnecessary letters. If the SSA had any competence and use, they would
maybe provide help with stuff like this, like a form letter we could use,
instead of soaking up our money on a trash magazine and selling us
'merchandise'. Regards, andrew

andrew

The SSA is a voluntary, non-profit organization. Though the solution
may seem simple, implementation may not be that easy. That said,
there are a number of volunteer committees, one of which addresses the
types of concerns you raise. I invite you to join one and bring your
competence and help develop the resources you wish the SSA to provide.

http://www.ssa.org/members/governance/volunteers.asp

Frank Whiteley

On Jun 12, 9:58 pm, Andrew Wood wrote:
At 16:18 12 June 2008, jb92563 wrote:



On Jun 11, 2:37=A0pm, wrote:
Andrew,

Regarding specifically Experimental Exhibition and Racing certificated
gliders that were certificated after July 19, 1993;

Take a look at The Order 8130.2F, CHG 3, Paragraph 161. subparagraph
(37) (page 178) regarding the annual program letter requirement. Looks
to me like if you just do proficiency flying all summer and don't go
to a "sanctioned meet", you might be OK with your original letter.
Of
course, per subparagraph (34) that pro flying takes place within a 300
mile radius of your home base airport. Subparagraph (35) is also
interesting reading, but in any case, all the paragraphs have to be
read together in detail ad nauseum to make any sense =A0- and then we
realize we are reading FAA guidance, so making sense may not be the
preferred task outcome.

Don't forget your copy of the "highlighted aeronautical chart" that
you carry with you aboard the aircraft per 161.(37).

While paragraph 132 may appear to be in conflict with the above -
we'll just go with the guidance specific to Exhibition and Racing
certificates, and even more specific to Group 1: Performance
Competition Aircraft, which iswhat the racing glider is defines as by
the FAA..

Paragraph 155.(c) (page 166) states that when the aircraft's base of
operation is changed or a change in ownership occurs, the owner must
notify the local FSDO and provide a copy of the inspection program (if
applicable, not likely for a glider, unless it's a turbine powered
glider) and a copy of the requested proficiency flight area.

Call your local FSDO for guidance specific to their area of operation.
Some FSDO's and aircraft Ops Limitations differ because The Order
allows it, see Paragraph 161, suparagraph a. (page 172) where it
states "The FAA Inspector may impose any additional limitations
deemed
necessary in the interest of safety."

Jim

I'm speculating that if you do have a crash and the FAA determines
that you are out of compliance on your LOA and hence your
certificate of airworthiness that your insurance company may NOT cover
your claims?

That would be the most compeling reason to make sure you have the
proper LOA filed with the FAA.

hello Jim thanks for pointing out 161.37 in that Order to me. I confess
that I had not read the entire Order. Personally I'd say the operative
word is 'update' rather than 'annual'. Ie if there is no update, no
annual letter is required. I intentionally made my own letter very broad,
with the plan that futher updates would not be needed, per para 35. I also
included the words 'If you have questions, or need any further
information, please let me know' to put the onus for updates back on the
FAA. I heard nothing back, so I would argue that they accepted that. The
real fact is that no one read my letter. But that is ok. I know the people
in my local FSDO, and they are helpful and supportive with things that
genuinely matter, and I try to be the same, and don't plan to send them
unnecessary letters. If the SSA had any competence and use, they would
maybe provide help with stuff like this, like a form letter we could use,
instead of soaking up our money on a trash magazine and selling us
'merchandise'. Regards, andrew

andrew

http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=86...chive=4/1/2002

What you're looking has been on the SSA web site since 2002. But
check with your FSDO.

Frank

At 23:20 13 June 2008, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Jun 12, 9:58 pm, Andrew Wood wrote:
At 16:18 12 June 2008, jb92563 wrote:



On Jun 11, 2:37=A0pm, wrote:
Andrew,

Regarding specifically Experimental Exhibition and Racing
certificated
gliders that were certificated after July 19, 1993;

Take a look at The Order 8130.2F, CHG 3, Paragraph 161.
subparagraph
(37) (page 178) regarding the annual program letter requirement.
Looks
to me like if you just do proficiency flying all summer and don't
go
to a "sanctioned meet", you might be OK with your original
letter.
Of
course, per subparagraph (34) that pro flying takes place within a
300
mile radius of your home base airport. Subparagraph (35) is also
interesting reading, but in any case, all the paragraphs have to be
read together in detail ad nauseum to make any sense =A0- and then
we
realize we are reading FAA guidance, so making sense may not be the
preferred task outcome.

Don't forget your copy of the "highlighted aeronautical chart"
that
you carry with you aboard the aircraft per 161.(37).

While paragraph 132 may appear to be in conflict with the above -
we'll just go with the guidance specific to Exhibition and Racing
certificates, and even more specific to Group 1: Performance
Competition Aircraft, which iswhat the racing glider is defines as
by
the FAA..

Paragraph 155.(c) (page 166) states that when the aircraft's base
of
operation is changed or a change in ownership occurs, the owner
must
notify the local FSDO and provide a copy of the inspection program
(if
applicable, not likely for a glider, unless it's a turbine powered
glider) and a copy of the requested proficiency flight area.

Call your local FSDO for guidance specific to their area of
operation.
Some FSDO's and aircraft Ops Limitations differ because The Order
allows it, see Paragraph 161, suparagraph a. (page 172) where it
states "The FAA Inspector may impose any additional limitations
deemed
necessary in the interest of safety."

Jim

I'm speculating that if you do have a crash and the FAA determines
that you are out of compliance on your LOA and hence your
certificate of airworthiness that your insurance company may NOT
cover
your claims?

That would be the most compeling reason to make sure you have the
proper LOA filed with the FAA.

hello Jim thanks for pointing out 161.37 in that Order to me. I
confess
that I had not read the entire Order. Personally I'd say the
operative
word is 'update' rather than 'annual'. Ie if there is no update,
no
annual letter is required. I intentionally made my own letter very
broad,
with the plan that futher updates would not be needed, per para 35. I
also
included the words 'If you have questions, or need any further
information, please let me know' to put the onus for updates back on
the
FAA. I heard nothing back, so I would argue that they accepted that.
The
real fact is that no one read my letter. But that is ok. I know the
people
in my local FSDO, and they are helpful and supportive with things that
genuinely matter, and I try to be the same, and don't plan to send
them
unnecessary letters. If the SSA had any competence and use, they would
maybe provide help with stuff like this, like a form letter we could
use,
instead of soaking up our money on a trash magazine and selling us
'merchandise'. Regards, andrew

andrew

http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=86...chive=4/1/2002

What you're looking has been on the SSA web site since 2002. But
check with your FSDO.

Frank


hello Frank

thanks for pointing the above SSA webpage out to me. It's useful and does
cover the question that has been discussed in this thread. I had not
discovered that page before. I had a hard time finding it without your
link. I'd guess that not many people have found it.

andrew