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#1
February 23rd 04, 07:16 AM
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BINGO. Got a hit. There is an I.E. Biggs listed (496 squadron) of Silbee
Texas. Now I gota check where and how he is now. Get back to you. I dont want post his address but if you want it lemme know and I will e-mail it to you. That's gotta be the guy. I sincerely hope his health has improved since the last time I saw him in San Marcos. v/r Gordon ====(A+C==== USN SAR Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone. 
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#3
February 23rd 04, 02:51 PM
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#4
February 23rd 04, 03:10 PM
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Subject: An Officer.......
From: Ed Rasimus Date: 2/23/04 6:51 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: On 22 Feb 2004 19:22:38 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote: An officer never complains. Show me a group that isn't griping, and I'll show you a group with a morale problem. An officer never explains. Show me an officer who won't explain to those he is leading the why of the issue and I'll show you a poor leader. And an officer never allows himself to be put on the defensive. If you don't find yourself on the defensive occasionally, you are little more than a caretaker and not being either innovative or aggressive. Reaching beyond the horizon will occasionally put you on the defensive. How you deal with it is the measure of how good you are. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 We learned our jobs at a different time and in a different war. And we didn't do all that badly in the process. I guess we learned to something right. Show me an officer who complains and I'll show you a whining wimp. How an officer behaves always trickles down to his men and his complaining can demoralise troops and result in defeat. Be strong, always be strong. When an officer's decisions are challenged by those below him explanations are signs of weakness and make for poor leadership. And when challenged he need only be secure in his decisions and demand his orders be followed. That is a strong leader. Once troops qustion a leaders decisions, he has lost both the control and faith of his troops. But I was trained in the army. You were trained in the Air Force. That may be the difference. No offense of course. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
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#5
February 23rd 04, 03:33 PM
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On 23 Feb 2004 15:10:55 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:
We learned our jobs at a different time and in a different war. And we didn't do all that badly in the process. I guess we learned to something right. Show me an officer who complains and I'll show you a whining wimp. There is a difference between "griping"/complaining and whining. Flying units are inherently comprised of officers, some in leadership roles and some in subordinate positions. I'll bet there was a lot of griping in your unit, regarding the weather, the chow, the mail, the headshed decisions, etc. That generally isn't whining, it's healthy. How an officer behaves always trickles down to his men and his complaining can demoralise troops and result in defeat. Be strong, always be strong. When an officer's decisions are challenged by those below him explanations are signs of weakness and make for poor leadership. We've got a disconnect there. Strength and confidence don't equate with arbitrariness and dictatorship. Leadership isn't simply giving orders, it's establishing the rapport with those being led that you know what is required. You won't get them killed and you will do the job. You'll lead from the front and share the risk, but you won't waste your men. Talking with Robin Olds last spring in Las Vegas, someone mentioned a legend about a propaganda drop of leaflets over N. Vietnam airfields in which Robin challenged the infamous Col. Tomb to an air duel. Robin responded quite clearly that it never happened. He then went on to explain that his job as commander of the 8th TFW was to bring his guys home. His task was not to gain personal glory killing MiGs in general or Col. Tomb in particular. It was to hit the assigned targets as efficiently as possible and take care of his men. That's leadership and it isn't done without explaining to your men what is going on and why. Hard to characterize Robin Olds as "weak" in any terms. And when challenged he need only be secure in his decisions and demand his orders be followed. That is a strong leader. Once troops qustion a leaders decisions, he has lost both the control and faith of his troops. But I was trained in the army. You were trained in the Air Force. That may be the difference. No offense of course. I'm not suggesting toleration of insubordination. That's a whole different ball game. I learned that the value of a subordinate comes from being willing to question the leader. Debate, discuss, argue if you will in the staff meeting, then when the decision is made and the door opens come out with a solid team in support of the agreed upon policy. If you see significant errors in the decision, you must raise the questions. You don't do it to demean the leader and you do it in the appropriate venue, but you must do it. A leader who refuses to be questioned is going to sacrifice his men and will most assuredly lose their confidence. Simply gaining an "A" prefix (commander) does not suddenly imbue the holder with papal infallibility. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8
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#6
February 24th 04, 03:27 PM
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Subject: An Officer.......
From: Ed Rasimus Date: 2/23/04 7:33 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: On 23 Feb 2004 15:10:55 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote: We learned our jobs at a different time and in a different war. And we didn't do all that badly in the process. I guess we learned to something right. Show me an officer who complains and I'll show you a whining wimp. There is a difference between "griping"/complaining and whining. Flying units are inherently comprised of officers, some in leadership roles and some in subordinate positions. I'll bet there was a lot of griping in your unit, regarding the weather, the chow, the mail, the headshed decisions, etc. That generally isn't whining, it's healthy. How an officer behaves always trickles down to his men and his complaining can demoralise troops and result in defeat. Be strong, always be strong. When an officer's decisions are challenged by those below him explanations are signs of weakness and make for poor leadership. We've got a disconnect there. Strength and confidence don't equate with arbitrariness and dictatorship. Leadership isn't simply giving orders, it's establishing the rapport with those being led that you know what is required. You won't get them killed and you will do the job. You'll lead from the front and share the risk, but you won't waste your men. Talking with Robin Olds last spring in Las Vegas, someone mentioned a legend about a propaganda drop of leaflets over N. Vietnam airfields in which Robin challenged the infamous Col. Tomb to an air duel. Robin responded quite clearly that it never happened. He then went on to explain that his job as commander of the 8th TFW was to bring his guys home. His task was not to gain personal glory killing MiGs in general or Col. Tomb in particular. It was to hit the assigned targets as efficiently as possible and take care of his men. That's leadership and it isn't done without explaining to your men what is going on and why. Hard to characterize Robin Olds as "weak" in any terms. And when challenged he need only be secure in his decisions and demand his orders be followed. That is a strong leader. Once troops qustion a leaders decisions, he has lost both the control and faith of his troops. But I was trained in the army. You were trained in the Air Force. That may be the difference. No offense of course. I'm not suggesting toleration of insubordination. That's a whole different ball game. I learned that the value of a subordinate comes from being willing to question the leader. Debate, discuss, argue if you will in the staff meeting, then when the decision is made and the door opens come out with a solid team in support of the agreed upon policy. If you see significant errors in the decision, you must raise the questions. You don't do it to demean the leader and you do it in the appropriate venue, but you must do it. A leader who refuses to be questioned is going to sacrifice his men and will most assuredly lose their confidence. Simply gaining an "A" prefix (commander) does not suddenly imbue the holder with papal infallibility. Ed, My purpose in posting this material is to share history with the NG. This is the way we were trained in 1943. These were ideas that were drilled into us. Arguing the point doesn't change history. It changes nothing and is pointless. What I have gotten for sharing history are flames. arguments and insults. Not a thank you in sight. But I must admit it gives me a lot to think about. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
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#7
February 24th 04, 04:24 PM
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"ArtKramr" wrote in message ... Subject: An Officer....... From: Ed Rasimus Date: 2/23/04 7:33 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: On 23 Feb 2004 15:10:55 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote: We learned our jobs at a different time and in a different war. And we didn't do all that badly in the process. I guess we learned to something right. Show me an officer who complains and I'll show you a whining wimp. There is a difference between "griping"/complaining and whining. Flying units are inherently comprised of officers, some in leadership roles and some in subordinate positions. I'll bet there was a lot of griping in your unit, regarding the weather, the chow, the mail, the headshed decisions, etc. That generally isn't whining, it's healthy. How an officer behaves always trickles down to his men and his complaining can demoralise troops and result in defeat. Be strong, always be strong. When an officer's decisions are challenged by those below him explanations are signs of weakness and make for poor leadership. We've got a disconnect there. Strength and confidence don't equate with arbitrariness and dictatorship. Leadership isn't simply giving orders, it's establishing the rapport with those being led that you know what is required. You won't get them killed and you will do the job. You'll lead from the front and share the risk, but you won't waste your men. Talking with Robin Olds last spring in Las Vegas, someone mentioned a legend about a propaganda drop of leaflets over N. Vietnam airfields in which Robin challenged the infamous Col. Tomb to an air duel. Robin responded quite clearly that it never happened. He then went on to explain that his job as commander of the 8th TFW was to bring his guys home. His task was not to gain personal glory killing MiGs in general or Col. Tomb in particular. It was to hit the assigned targets as efficiently as possible and take care of his men. That's leadership and it isn't done without explaining to your men what is going on and why. Hard to characterize Robin Olds as "weak" in any terms. And when challenged he need only be secure in his decisions and demand his orders be followed. That is a strong leader. Once troops qustion a leaders decisions, he has lost both the control and faith of his troops. But I was trained in the army. You were trained in the Air Force. That may be the difference. No offense of course. I'm not suggesting toleration of insubordination. That's a whole different ball game. I learned that the value of a subordinate comes from being willing to question the leader. Debate, discuss, argue if you will in the staff meeting, then when the decision is made and the door opens come out with a solid team in support of the agreed upon policy. If you see significant errors in the decision, you must raise the questions. You don't do it to demean the leader and you do it in the appropriate venue, but you must do it. A leader who refuses to be questioned is going to sacrifice his men and will most assuredly lose their confidence. Simply gaining an "A" prefix (commander) does not suddenly imbue the holder with papal infallibility. Ed, My purpose in posting this material is to share history with the NG. This is the way we were trained in 1943. These were ideas that were drilled into us. Arguing the point doesn't change history. It changes nothing and is pointless. What I have gotten for sharing history are flames. arguments and insults. Not a thank you in sight. But I must admit it gives me a lot to think about. Because your "history" is often factually incorrect (like your repeated past claims of PGM-like bombing accuracy each and every time you performed a mission). *Real* military history of the US during WWII is replete with comments from the players as to how the US soldier was often asking, and being told, the "why" of the mission. There is a wide gulf of difference beween a lot of your accounts and real, documented history--don't mistake one for the other. Brooks Arthur Kramer
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#8
February 24th 04, 08:31 PM
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ArtKramr wrote: What I have gotten for sharing history are flames. arguments and insults. Not a thank you in sight. Arthur Kramer Art, I have seen several, maybe even many, posters offer you sincere thanks for your personal description of history as you remember it. Maybe you could try to remember some of those "Thank you" comments. Dave
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#9
February 25th 04, 03:49 AM
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#10
February 23rd 04, 03:42 PM
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